Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Alerith]

I understand you have your own twisted idea of what balance is. I understand you can justify just about everything you've done in some way or another. But in another thread, I typed out this mockup quote:

"Your 99 +1 Almace is the exact same as my 99 Almace. Oh wait! Yours gives ME a bonus!"

And as I finished typing it, I realized more and more how this makes absolutely NO sense. There isn't a shred of logic here.

You've stated that a Level 99 R/M/E will have the same damage, delay and effect as a level 99 R/M/E with afterglow.

You've also stated that the afterglow will effect everyone EXCEPT the wielder.

You've also stated that the trial for said afterglow is going to be absurd enough so that only a few players actually get it.

My question is very simple: Why?

If Player A has a 99 Almace and Player B has a 99 Almace, they are on even ground. If Player A goes and does the insane trial for 99 Almace +1, PLAYER B reaps the reward.

"Oh, but Player A gets to glow!"

Big freakin' whoop. When it comes down to combat, your glow ain't gonna do squat while the rest of the party reaps the afterglow effect and your years of insane trial questing has left you in exactly the same place you were years ago.

From this perspective, it's actually more beneficial to me if I just stand around a few years doing NOTHING, and wait to get the benefit of someone else's afterglow.

I've twisted logic as much as I can for your past actions. But this...I can't even truly comprehend WHY you're doing it this way.

[Krashport]

I understand you have your own twisted idea of what balance is. I understand you can justify just about everything you've done in some way or another. But in another thread, I typed out this mockup quote:

"Your 99 +1 Almace is the exact same as my 99 Almace. Oh wait! Yours gives ME a bonus!"

And as I finished typing it, I realized more and more how this makes absolutely NO sense. There isn't a shred of logic here.

You've stated that a Level 99 R/M/E will have the same damage, delay and effect as a level 99 R/M/E with afterglow.

You've also stated that the afterglow will effect everyone EXCEPT the wielder.

You've also stated that the trial for said afterglow is going to be absurd enough so that only a few players actually get it.

My question is very simple: Why?

If Player A has a 99 Almace and Player B has a 99 Almace, they are on even ground. If Player A goes and does the insane trial for 99 Almace +1, PLAYER B reaps the reward.

"Oh, but Player A gets to glow!"

PLAYER B better step up their game because their LOL.

[Arcon]

And as I finished typing it, I realized more and more how this makes absolutely NO sense. There isn't a shred of logic here.

There is, actually. This is a MMORPG. It's meant to be played with other people. Having an AoE effect will help your party and thus help you. For people wanting epeen, this is useless (even counterproductive), for people wanting efficiency and a weapon that will help their party, linkshell and friends, and by extension themselves, this is pretty cool. If only the AoE effect wasn't sucky, that is, but that's another issue altogether. There's nothing wrong with the logic behind this. And if it's at all doable in the future I'll also try to get to this point.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

This is a MMORPG. It's meant to be played with other people.

Such is not the deffinition of an MMO sadly. Most are simply just people playing the same thing.

[Arcon]

Such is not the deffinition of an MMO sadly. Most are simply just people playing the same thing.

I'm not saying it's the definition, I'm saying it's meant to. Which is obvious, if you consider the scale of certain events (minimum player entrance requirement, for example, or even events allowing up to 64 members and encouraging 18+). Sure, you can play solo for some of its content (lately possibly most of its content), but that wasn't the design. As such, the logic behind gearing towards multiplayer-efficiency isn't a fallacy on SE's part.

To make the whole thing relevant, either the effect needs to be better or the trial needs to be toned down considerably. Right now, there's no real incentive for a player to want to do it.

Right now, no one knows what the trial is. People are just bitching about unconfirmed test server information. Which isn't bad in itself, it shows SE how pissed off people are already and will hopefully result in them not considering such a ridiculous trial. I agree if it's like it is now when they release it, no one will do it. But again, that's another issue altogether. The idea of enhancing one person to support their party isn't wrong in itself, if executed correctly. It's all on SE now to show us if they know how to do it correctly (I'm guessing not, but I won't judge before it's released).

[Alerith]

There is, actually. This is a MMORPG. It's meant to be played with other people. Having an AoE effect will help your party and thus help you. For people wanting epeen, this is useless (even counterproductive), for people wanting efficiency and a weapon that will help their party, linkshell and friends, and by extension themselves, this is pretty cool. If only the AoE effect wasn't sucky, that is, but that's another issue altogether. There's nothing wrong with the logic behind this. And if it's at all doable in the future I'll also try to get to this point.

I certainly understand what you're saying and I agree that any righteous player can make use of this for others. But the effect is so underwhelming, the trial is (currently) absurd and in all honesty, the level 99 weapon without afterglow wielded by one guy can help many more people in the time it would take for the other guy to take his friends/shell out to finish his 99 with afterglow.

To make the whole thing relevant, either the effect needs to be better or the trial needs to be toned down considerably. Right now, there's no real incentive for a player to want to do it. If they want it for Epeen, as you said, it would be useless or counter-productive. For someone wanting to help out others, they would be able to help more people out without the afterglow because of the amount of time you'd have to sacrifice getting to it.

I haven't taken an economics course, but I've heard a bit about this whole Diminishing Returns thing. Where if you increase one thing too much, it decreases the overall output. Right now, the trial is so overwhelming with such a minimal reward, they're destroying the usefulness of it compared to a non-afterglow weapon. Sure, you got afterglow and helped out X number of people. But how many people did you have to use, or turn away, or ignore, to get to that point?

[DrStrangelove]

Right now, there's no real incentive for a player to want to do it.

It's a freaking hard quest for limited value to YOU. So, don't do it. Problem solved.

[Alerith]

It's a freaking hard quest for limited value to YOU. So, don't do it. Problem solved.

I don't intend to do it. The problem isn't whether I want to do it or not. It's the fact that there is no purpose for anyone else to want to do it either, short of completion's sake.

While that's all good and fine, my heart bleeds for those people because the trial doesn't justify what they're trying to achieve.

[Camiie]

It's a freaking hard quest for limited value to YOU. So, don't do it. Problem solved.

I won't do it, but it can affect me just the same. What I'm trying to avoid is a precedent being set for other content. If the playerbase finds this type of trial acceptable or is silent about it, you can bet they will introduce something similarly time consuming for the rest of us. Oh it won't be killing 500 PW or 1000 ADLs, but you know they'd love to have everyone slogging through already implemented content for years for a single upgrade if they can get away with it. I want them to know that, for me, that's not cool.

[VoiceMemo]

Actually when 99 relics/emp are thought of this way, that 2nd half of lvl 99 only makes sense for Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla. They have always been about buffing those around them. The fact that they may not get afterglow is kindof ironic. Granted yes trigger would probably have to be every X amount of songs, or X combo of songs or something brand new. In a way the weapons are acquiring what was once horn and harp only.