Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Unctgtg]

I would take 20 from Old DL

[Brolic]

I would take 20 from Old DL

5 adl drop is still potential 20 adl kills if you have bad luck with clones. that's still my big issue with this

[Arcon]

Ugh, post got deleted... I'll try to keep it a bit shorter this time.

20 drops from ADL is not reasonable. 5 is not reasonable. Yet some people want to think that it is. Why is that? Because it's 5 and not 20? It wasn't unreasonable because it was 20. It was unreasonable because it was ADL. If you say 5 is reasonable then 20 is reasonable. Period.

Wrong, period. 5 is four times less than 20. Sad that I even have to spell it out like that, but for big LS that means 1 year vs. 4 years. You really think there's no difference?

So you know 10 relic owners who have 17 people willing to slave away at their relics for little to no gain or are they going to pay the other 17 people.

Yes. Only what you call "slave away" I call teamwork. Linkshells, ever heard of the concept? People working together to achieve a goal they couldn't on their own. Having people with Lv99 relics benefits everyone in the LS. That is the idea. I'm sure it sounds foreign to you, because people always want immediate gains for themselves. It's called being selfish.

Yes its is to much to ask for with a 10 year old game.

What the hell does the age have to do with it at all?

Arcon do u even have a R/M/E?

Yes, and working on more, although that is completely irrelevant. If I didn't have one, you think my opinion wouldn't matter? Or you think my judgment was somehow clouded?

It's very simple, it's a matter of perspective. Most people I argue with on here come from a different mindset, a different environment. Apparently, there's not many on here who have played with people for a purpose other than personal gain. People even asking stuff like "Who would help you with it?" completely baffle me, because the answer to that question seems obvious: your friends. Plenty of times we've had to gather an entire LS for stuff only a few people needed (Ouryu runs, Bahamut runs, KS99, relic NMs, ZNMs, sea/sky), others just willingly came along to help. Personally I find it hard to understand why someone wouldn't help their LS members. Sure, it may be annoying for a while, but in the end you're helping a friend (completely disregarding the fact that effectively you're helping yourself as well).

I came to realize (this isn't the only argument of this kind I've had with people on here) that we simply come from a different environment. Other people apparently had worse experiences than myself. I find it hard to imagine, though, that that extends to the majority of the people on the game. No one I know complained about 5 ADL items, and I really can't see why one would. While there would be easier solutions, I can't in good conscience call this unreasonable.

[Staren]

Just my two cents but it seems they're really just trying to balance out total time taken for each type of endgame weapon.

Mythics 450-600 mil gil worth of alexandrite + insane amounts of other stuff > ws trials > 3 pandemonium drops
so the biggest crash and time sync for a mythic is the first step 50 weeks of einerjar farming 450-600mil worth of alexandrite

Empyreans a week of trial nms + 50 nm items + 50 nm items > 75 items + 1500 hmps > 60 rift items
The heavy metal plates are 150mil of items the 60 rift items make up for the difference between mythics and empyreans and all of these items are buyable unlike ichor from einerbibble

Relics 150 mil-ish worth of coins > ws trials > 5 arch dl items

I don't know how balanced it is just yet but it would seem there will be alot more finished relics before empyreans or mythics.

[Nynja]

Just my two cents but it seems they're really just trying to balance out total time taken for each type of endgame weapon.

Mythics 450-600 mil gil worth of alexandrite + insane amounts of other stuff > ws trials > 3 pandemonium drops
so the biggest crash and time sync for a mythic is the first step 50 weeks of einerjar farming 450-600mil worth of alexandrite

If they were trying to balance out the time relation, then mythics should just talk to paparoon, shove their weapon up his rear, and it comes out lv99...

and emps are easy >.> you can say what you want about how the 1500 hmp is a huge timesink, but how many 95 emps have been put out since sep 20 (when plates were added?)

[Staren]

If they were trying to balance out the time relation, then mythics should just talk to paparoon, shove their weapon up his rear, and it comes out lv99...

and emps are easy >.> you can say what you want about how the 1500 hmp is a huge timesink, but how many 95 emps have been put out since sep 20 (when plates were added?)

Not trying to say mythics are easy we've been working on once since september and she'll be done with einerjar in april which is when we'll finally be completely done with it. Just saying they're trying to balance it all out the best they can and maybe new nyzul/salvage will help.

[Nynja]

Presuming all you're doing for alex is farming them, because the market is sooooo sparse, and presuming you're strictly doing SS or arra for guaranteed results (my average in those 2 areas is 125, cotton and linen factored in), 30000/125 = 240 days.
Thats not factoring in Captain and redoing all your assaults, which is 100 days presuming 100% success rate, though this can be done on the side while you're farming alex. But then you need your 150,000 tokens, which cant be done on the side as your assault since they both require tags. I'm not really sure how to calculate token reward for going more than 5 levels, its not on the wiki...lets just presume you're always given armband and you have never spent tokens getting in. 22,653 Tokens your first time around, because you needed to get your runic key (20 days), and you're still missing 1271347 tokens. At 1501 tokens rewarded per 95-100, thats an extra 85 days. So you're looking at ~200 days of assaulting as well.

Theres still einherjar ampoules as well...and the kings, but thats meh.


In that time you can build every emp and ~6 relics.

[Staren]

Presuming all you're doing for alex is farming them, because the market is sooooo sparse, and presuming you're strictly doing SS or arra for guaranteed results (my average in those 2 areas is 125, cotton and linen factored in), 30000/125 = 240 days.
Thats not factoring in Captain and redoing all your assaults, which is 100 days presuming 100% success rate, though this can be done on the side while you're farming alex. But then you need your 150,000 tokens, which cant be done on the side as your assault since they both require tags. I'm not really sure how to calculate token reward for going more than 5 levels, its not on the wiki...lets just presume you're always given armband and you have never spent tokens getting in. 22,653 Tokens your first time around, because you needed to get your runic key (20 days), and you're still missing 1271347 tokens. At 1501 tokens rewarded per 95-100, thats an extra 85 days. So you're looking at ~200 days of assaulting as well.

Theres still einherjar ampoules as well...and the kings, but thats meh.


In that time you can build every emp and ~6 relics.

You can buy alexandrite like we've done thus the 450mil to 600 mil price tag. We'll be done with alex in 20 days and we started in september that's what 5 months to farm the gil/alexandrite. You get about 4k tokens with leader per run doing 10 floors a run with 3 people which is a little over a month. Captain takes 50 days max especially now that you're 99. Redoing assaults takes 50 days max. Ichor is really the only issue if you havent done einerbibble before. Kings really were a joke. Building a PW pop took 1 week with three people. Its not that hard. I dont know how many relics and empys we can make in 50 weeks but I would be interested to see. Still 11 and a half months is pretty rough that's for sure. Luckily for us we did do einerbibble off and on so our member already had a decent chunk of ichor stored up.

[Nynja]

lol...thats all I gotta say. "becuz I went 1/1, it means its easy", I guess that means you're a pretty bad player if you set the standards that low.

Agent Rescue has nothing to with skill if the non-nin mamools just refuse to do weapon toss. Feed all the TP you want, but it comes down to random number generator, and if random number generator says: firespit, warm up, fire spit, warm up, warm up, rushing drub, warm up, firespit...too bad so sad. Thats not skill

"You should be able to kill the worms faster so you can keep mining more. Again went 1/1 on this both times we did it. "
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
Your pickaxe breaks (FKKKKKKKKKKK I HAVE TO RUN ALL THE WAY AROUND NOW)
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You dig up a pebble!
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You dig up a zinc ore!
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
Your pickaxe breaks.

Once again, wheres the skill in this. The worms arent a deterrent at all.


"You only need 1 sheep to win this. Again not that hard read the strat it is ridiculously easy to get only one sheep if you play smart. You should have been able to do this 1/1 at 95"
Once again, level has NOTHING to do with this, I can go 1/1 at lvl 1. Doesnt change the fact that if I keep mining up garbage or bronze coins, I'm going to lose.

"Overall more dps and faster movement speed at 90+ makes these fights ridiculously easy. With the exception of lebros supplies. "
all the above assaults I mentioned have almost nothing to do with fighting. Movement speed is available at level 1 with sprinter shoes...

[Staren]

lol...thats all I gotta say. "becuz I went 1/1, it means its easy", I guess that means you're a pretty bad player if you set the standards that low.

Agent Rescue has nothing to with skill if the non-nin mamools just refuse to do weapon toss. Feed all the TP you want, but it comes down to random number generator, and if random number generator says: firespit, warm up, fire spit, warm up, warm up, rushing drub, warm up, firespit...too bad so sad. Thats not skill

"You should be able to kill the worms faster so you can keep mining more. Again went 1/1 on this both times we did it. "
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
Your pickaxe breaks (FKKKKKKKKKKK I HAVE TO RUN ALL THE WAY AROUND NOW)
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You dig up a pebble!
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You dig up a zinc ore!
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
You mine nothing.
Your pickaxe breaks.

Once again, wheres the skill in this. The worms arent a deterrent at all.


"You only need 1 sheep to win this. Again not that hard read the strat it is ridiculously easy to get only one sheep if you play smart. You should have been able to do this 1/1 at 95"
Once again, level has NOTHING to do with this, I can go 1/1 at lvl 1. Doesnt change the fact that if I keep mining up garbage or bronze coins, I'm going to lose.

"Overall more dps and faster movement speed at 90+ makes these fights ridiculously easy. With the exception of lebros supplies. "
all the above assaults I mentioned have almost nothing to do with fighting. Movement speed is available at level 1 with sprinter shoes...

Movement speed + sprinters shoes makes movement speed faster and you should have 3 people working on these. Really if you are going to pull the random number generator response on this you're sad. 3 compitent players with movement speed + and sprinters shoes effect on or dancer with chocobo jig and movement speed + can do these. I'm actually a very good player I do realize some things are random but I dont bitch and moan about "random number generators" I'll give you a group not seriously trying can not get captain in 50 days but especially since you CAN bring in 6 people and not just 3 its even sadder. For the tp feed one I don't know what to say for you if you honestly believe you cant do this without luck especially if you can bring 6 people all dual wielding 1 dmg clubs and someone able to cure. It might explain why you have issues altogether. I just think assaults and nyzul are the STUPIDEST things to bitch about out of the mythic quests. I mean while you marked it debatable you seriously listed Supplies Recovery as a possible problem child assault.