Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Lynchilles]

Alright ... that's it.

I'm lending the Dev Team and dear Camate my www.crymeariver@whaambulance.mail because this is the largest session of crazy crying I've EVER seen on a forum. From 20 to 5, from 10 to 3 ... and dross/cinder is still 60. For the love of God, Allah, Altana .. whatever ... STOP CRYING!

This is a major concession in and of itself. For the FINAL tier of weapons (not including the Shiny Afterglow) the difficulty does and SHOULD fit what you're getting. Of the 56+ pages of whining, no its' NOT discussion, I've seen very little complaining about the 60 rift items - YES they can shout grouped, spammed, what have you but at the end of the day it's STILL 60 with a pittance of a drop rate and you'll have to pay for what you can't get.

If 5 items is still too much work, just stop threatening to quit go find the Cancellation page and make use of it. Because honestly, this is an MMO, it requires teamwork and compromises and YES competition. It's what drives a player to be the best and go after the best gear. Without that it's just being spoonfed like the WoW babies and the Abyssea babies that we've been plagued with since the start of that expansion.

BTW. THANK YOU, Camate and thank you Development Team for this concession as a future relic holder, future mythic holder and a veteran player. I have a challenge to look forward too while I wait on content. Cheers Mate!

I reiterate ... please send all flame and hatred to Idungivediddly@trollolol.mail

It seems as if you decided to post an opinion without even bothering to read anything in this thread. Go away.

[Geabrielle]

It seems as if you decided to post an opinion without even bothering to read anything in this thread. Go away.

The sad part of this is I have been reading it in hopes of getting some development information.

[Unleashhell]

Greetings.

Some of you have already posted the information that was on the Japanese forums, but here it is again, officially.

Required number of items
As a result of adjustments to match the trial difficulty, the below are the current numbers that are planned for the stage 1 version of the weapon upgrades.

• Relic Weapons: 5 items
• Mythic Weapons: 3 items
• Empyrean Weapons: 60 items

This should be thought about 1 more time.

The Dev team needs to realize you Dynamis has a time limit. In that time limit you can only make so many pop sets, then only kill ADL 1x per run because people used up their 2 hour abilities. SE needs to give more incentive for ADL along with some minor changes.

Here is what I propose:
[*]Relic Weapons: 3 items
[*]Mythic Weapons: 5 items (PW is still old level 75 content, ADL is newer higher level content and requires more)

Adjustments to Arch Dynamis Lord:

1-2 Umbral Marrow (1 is 100%, 2nd is TH based?)
1-4 100 Piece (1 is 100%, 2-4 is TH based?)


At least having 1-4 100 pieces is a little incentive. I suppose you can add a log or two to the drop list....*sarcasm*

[Creelo]

I just love how the people bitching about the people that are bitching about these Relic trials are the people that DON'T have a Relic.

BTW. THANK YOU, Camate and thank you Development Team for this concession as a future relic holder, future mythic holder and a veteran player. I have a challenge to look forward too while I wait on content. Cheers Mate!

Oh please lol

[Geabrielle]

The Dev team needs to realize you Dynamis has a time limit. In that time limit you can only make so many pop sets, then only kill ADL 1x per run because people used up their 2 hour abilities. SE needs to give more incentive for ADL along with some minor changes.

Adjustments to Arch Dynamis Lord:

1-2 Umbral Marrow (1 is 100%, 2nd is TH based?)
1-4 100 Piece (1 is 100%, 2-4 is TH based?)

This at least, I'll get behind as a possible adjustment to ADL himself. I can't go for the switch between Mythic and Relic simply because getting a Mythic is a bigger crap shoot than a Relic for time investment and has been since creation.

[CordeliaAzalan]

This should be thought about 1 more time.

The Dev team needs to realize you Dynamis has a time limit. In that time limit you can only make so many pop sets, then only kill ADL 1x per run because people used up their 2 hour abilities. SE needs to give more incentive for ADL along with some minor changes.

Here is what I propose:
[*]Relic Weapons: 3 items
[*]Mythic Weapons: 5 items (PW is still old level 75 content, ADL is newer higher level content and requires more)

Adjustments to Arch Dynamis Lord:

1-2 Umbral Marrow (1 is 100%, 2nd is TH based?)
1-4 100 Piece (1 is 100%, 2-4 is TH based?)


At least having 1-4 100 pieces is a little incentive. I suppose you can add a log or two to the drop list....*sarcasm*

While I don't agree with swapping of the item numbers (the overall road of Mythic is much longer and more annoying than Relic was and currently is), I can see why they cut Mythic-wielders some slack, I support the idea of 1-2 Marrows with 1 being 100%. And at the very least, half that concept should apply to PW in that his Mulcibar's Scoria should be 100%.

[Geabrielle]

I just love how the people bitching about the people that are bitching about these Relic trials are the people that DON'T have a Relic.



Oh please lol

It's perfectly acceptable to add my opinion here simply because it's an over all consideration to how far I choose to go with my weapon and as a basis of making the choice to get said weapon in the first place. I looked beyond the acquisition of the 75 itself, pre-adjustment of the killshots and what have you and still said "fine, I'll do this and see how they progress later". Considering I'm looking at the end of my progress before I've even gotten my weapon says that I'm taking the entire process into account not just how bad ass my weapon will be that very instant.

[Nynja]

While I don't agree with swapping of the item numbers (the overall road of Mythic is much longer and more annoying than Relic was, so I can see why they cut Mythic-wielders some slack), I support the idea of 1-2 Marrows with 1 being 100%. And at the very least, half that concept should apply to PW in that his Mulcibar's Scoria should be 100%.

There was nothing wrong with the PW trial then, at 10 items needed with the zeni/picture boost, it was fine, regardless of the fact that mythic weapons required giving their first born. The revised zeni was more than sufficient to make getting 10 PW pops a decent trial...maybe it wouldnt be finished in a week, but the difficulty scale was rather low.


The problem was, and still is, the relic trial. Cutting it down to 5 doesnt change the fact that its still the hardest trial by a decent margin. Break it down by manhours required, I'll copy what I wrote on another forum (though I'm gonna fix up some stuff since I wrote that on my phone):

ADL: realistically, with needing PD to kill adl, you can do one per run. For best chance of success, you should bring 18, so if youre wrong on the first set of clones, you can still kill the second set of clones. So you're already looking at 36 manhours per adl attempt. With a 75% kill rate factoring in the luck garbage, youre looking at about 7 adl attempts for 5 marrows. 36x7 is 252 manhours per relic 99, with marginal gains to those just helping. Everything must be coordinated with the schedule of 18 others.

PW: Requires approx 7 gamedays of zeni turnin at proposed 10x value. The picture taking should take 30 min for each days worth of pictures..maybe, been a while. The legwork can be 2boxd up to the tier 4s...and maybe the t4s as well. Presume 2 hours per t1-t2-t3 kill factoring in running time (im being generous) and 30 min for the T4, so 7 manhours per t4 x3 is 21 hours per pw set. Theres some complications since you can turn in pictures while getting new pop items...sooooo 21 hours per pw set of nms, 2 hours of picture taking, 30x18 minutes to kill pw.
...
30min*18*3 to kill all 3 PW's = 27 manhours
7 manhours per t4 set * 3 sets * 3 PW pop items = 63 manhours
add in 2 hours of picture taking (I dont remember when I mentally calculated it if this was for 1 PW set or 3...lets presume 1) x3 = 6 manhours

96 manhours to farm from 0 to 3 PW kills, with only 27 manhours requiring scheduling corrdination vs 252 manhours for 5 ADL kills requiring full scheduling coordination throughout.


thats not balance, especially considering you want the relic trials to be easier

[CordeliaAzalan]

There was nothing wrong with the PW trial then, at 10 items needed with the zeni/picture boost, it was fine, regardless of the fact that mythic weapons required giving their first born. The revised zeni was more than sufficient to make getting 10 PW pops a decent trial...maybe it wouldnt be finished in a week, but the difficulty scale was rather low.

Hmm, that's true that the increased zeni will aid in procuring a popset for PW, but it's still a decent amount of mobs you have to fight for that. At best, it'll take 12 mobs scattered across various zones to get you the 3 colored seals for a PW item, whereas ADL's is 5 mobs in the same zone. Granted, those 12 are still easier due to being lower level, it'll still take a longer period of time to get to all 12; that's where my concern of making the 1 Scoria 100% comes from.

[Arcon]

It could be 2 and the point still stands that no one does ADL

There is no point there. People will do ADL, for it. People will help others with it. People have always gone to far greater lengths to help friends and LS members out than about ten less than two hour long events, spread out over a an arbitrary length of time. And it will be done again.

I don't expect SE to hand people these weapons done with afterglows but really the disconnect between player and developer has reached Looney Tunes levels here.

Are you talking about the stage 1 trials? Because if you were talking about the last few weeks, I would have agreed with you. Last few days, less so, but still agreed. Now I agree that the disconnect between certain players and developers has reached Looney Tunes levels. Those players are a few misguided souls on here complaining about less than ten fights they have to do to achieve the ultimate weapon in a class (give or take). Pretty much everyone I knew was outraged about the fake trial numbers. Most people I knew were still unhappy about the reduced numbers. Now, no one I know is really complaining, aside from the occasional "meh" comment. That shows me, that everyone has calmed down and realized that this trial, in its current form, is more than doable. The fact that some people, now, of all times, go and proclaim the developers lack of common sense (after they've reduced the trial first by 95% and then again by another 75%) really makes them hard to take seriously.

I admit that stage 2 numbers are an entirely different topic. And tbh, I don't even know what the current state of those is... are they gonna be adjusted like the first stage was? Or were they, and I missed it? Somehow I find it hard to believe that SE would lower the stage 1 trials to an almost generous amount (by their standards) yet leave the stage 2 trials untouched. I almost expect them to lower those as well, because I doubt anyone would be willing to do the amount equal to 100 normal Lv99 relics for an underwhelming afterglow effect.

The JP are bitching as furiously as the NA because this is classic bait 'n switch. Make dynamis easy, encourage lowman relics, design trials up to 99 that require few people then BAM 99 needs a full alliance/linkshell + full Dynamis run for ONE person? lol.

Again, aside from a handful of people here I don't see anyone raging anymore. And it's hardly bait and switch, you're just reading intentions into their actions again. They were probably disappointed by what they let relics become. Ever since they were introduced relics were the symbol for ultimate achievement. What they did to Neodynamis was not so everyone could farm their relics in a few months (I'm pretty sure that's another development they didn't consider in advance), it was a reaction to the way empyreans knocked them off their throne. Giving the state of the game at that point, which was big LS fractioned into small parties, they wanted to make them more accessible as a trade-off for the lack of power.

However, these days things are more balanced. For some weapon classes, relics are better, for others mythics, for others empyreans. So for the ultimate upgrade, they wanted the game to return on its former path. And they didn't even go that far. Hell, even 20 ADL drops was still better than what used to be considered "normal" back in the day, now 5 is really nothing anyone can complain about.