Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[CordeliaAzalan]

There was nothing wrong with the PW trial then, at 10 items needed with the zeni/picture boost, it was fine, regardless of the fact that mythic weapons required giving their first born. The revised zeni was more than sufficient to make getting 10 PW pops a decent trial...maybe it wouldnt be finished in a week, but the difficulty scale was rather low.

Hmm, that's true that the increased zeni will aid in procuring a popset for PW, but it's still a decent amount of mobs you have to fight for that. At best, it'll take 12 mobs scattered across various zones to get you the 3 colored seals for a PW item, whereas ADL's is 5 mobs in the same zone. Granted, those 12 are still easier due to being lower level, it'll still take a longer period of time to get to all 12; that's where my concern of making the 1 Scoria 100% comes from.

[Nala]

There was nothing wrong with the PW trial then, at 10 items needed with the zeni/picture boost, it was fine, regardless of the fact that mythic weapons required giving their first born. The revised zeni was more than sufficient to make getting 10 PW pops a decent trial...maybe it wouldnt be finished in a week, but the difficulty scale was rather low.


The problem was, and still is, the relic trial. Cutting it down to 5 doesnt change the fact that its still the hardest trial by a decent margin. Break it down by manhours required, I'll copy what I wrote on another forum (though I'm gonna fix up some stuff since I wrote that on my phone):

ADL: realistically, with needing PD to kill adl, you can do one per run. For best chance of success, you should bring 18, so if youre wrong on the first set of clones, you can still kill the second set of clones. So you're already looking at 36 manhours per adl attempt. With a 75% kill rate factoring in the luck garbage, youre looking at about 7 adl attempts for 5 marrows. 36x7 is 252 manhours per relic 99, with marginal gains to those just helping. Everything must be coordinated with the schedule of 18 others.

PW: Requires approx 7 gamedays of zeni turnin at proposed 10x value. The picture taking should take 30 min for each days worth of pictures..maybe, been a while. The legwork can be 2boxd up to the tier 4s...and maybe the t4s as well. Presume 2 hours per t1-t2-t3 kill factoring in running time (im being generous) and 30 min for the T4, so 7 manhours per t4 x3 is 21 hours per pw set. Theres some complications since you can turn in pictures while getting new pop items...sooooo 21 hours per pw set of nms, 2 hours of picture taking, 30x18 minutes to kill pw.
...
30min*18*3 to kill all 3 PW's = 27 manhours
7 manhours per t4 set * 3 sets * 3 PW pop items = 63 manhours
add in 2 hours of picture taking (I dont remember when I mentally calculated it if this was for 1 PW set or 3...lets presume 1) x3 = 6 manhours

96 manhours to farm from 0 to 3 PW kills, with only 27 manhours requiring scheduling corrdination vs 252 manhours for 5 ADL kills requiring full scheduling coordination throughout.


thats not balance, especially considering you want the relic trials to be easier

Damn i was just thinking about bringing up the whole man hours aspect too damn you nynja, also you put a bit more of a complex analysis then i would have. either way while i don't feel as full on rage mode about this trial anymore the dev team's still off their rocker.

[Babygyrl]

Greetings.

Some of you have already posted the information that was on the Japanese forums, but here it is again, officially.

Required number of items
As a result of adjustments to match the trial difficulty, the below are the current numbers that are planned for the stage 1 version of the weapon upgrades.

• Relic Weapons: 5 items
• Mythic Weapons: 3 items
• Empyrean Weapons: 60 items

※As we are currently carefully looking into the number of items required for stage 2, we will let you know the specifics once the information is available.

Well its official that i am officially disappointed. It is a real shame, you informed us this trial will be able to be done by almost "everyone" for part 1. If this is going to be the final product for the trial, then SE has clearly lied to us all. This trial is not doable by everyone, UNLESS you have a boat load of gil to buy the items. Collecting an item from a extremely difficult NM is not balanced in the slightest. Unless you have a secret up your sleeve and the item is going to drop from regular NM's as well, then there is just no hope for us is there? How long does SE expect this game to live on? years? That is Highly doubtful.

I am personally going to be content with Mandau at 95. 2 damage and 5 attack is not going to be worth the pain and suffering that will be endured to fight ADL. I am just disappointed on how the development team has pretty much teased/fooled us all. They have forgotten that some people spent years building their relics/mythics just to level 75. It took my husband over 3 years to finally complete Gungnir only being able able to do so once Dynamis changed. And now he is never going to get to complete it to 99, because of this terrible trial. Fighting an NM like ADL should be fun and a Achievement, not a painful chore. By adding this item to ADL for a trial that Many will need, you have completely taken the fun out of fighting something that difficult.

I have enjoyed the new dynamis changes, and i would have never ever decided to build a mandau if the changes were never made, i felt like they were just so unfair/hard to obtain. (I still feel this way about mythics) But at the very least, it was doable because people you got in your ls to come would get AF they really wanted in return. There is nothing people are going to want from ADL to even bother helping anyone do it. Hell, building a mandau is the only thing keeping me interested in the game right now, there is simply nothing else to do.

I thought the point of the Magaian trials was suppose to be something fun, and rewarding at the same time. Having the capability to Build all of them either as a group or alone, gives everyone a fair advantage. The entire point of playing a game is to have fun, and these trials will certainly not be fun for any mythic/relic/emp owners. I would rather have trials that are slow/steady/consistent then what these have come out to be, seeing progress and growth keeps me interested, not something like ADL killing which would make me stressed out to no end. To say you cant change the trial because people "already started collecting" the items is such a lie, and not doing kills for these NMs because everyone would get credit is bad" clearly states that SE pretty much wants 99 relics/emp/mythics to be non existent. Well if you wanted to achieve "balance" in a sense that no one rather then everyone will obtain it, you sure will have achieved that goal. So in closing these trials need/should be completely changed, NM's that hard should not be involved in these trials period. However, we all know they do not care what we want. Unless ffxi development team has content in the works worth staying for ( and this sure as hell dont cut it) Do not be surprised when the player base begins to sink even more.

[Kluaf]

Greetings.
Some of you have already posted the information that was on the Japanese forums, but here it is again, officially.
Required number of items
As a result of adjustments to match the trial difficulty, the below are the current numbers that are planned for the stage 1 version of the weapon upgrades.

• Relic Weapons: 5 items
• Mythic Weapons: 3 items
• Empyrean Weapons: 60 items

※As we are currently carefully looking into the number of items required for stage 2, we will let you know the specifics once the information is available.

Well sure it a big drop from imaginary number they had used but they also stated it was just a figure they used NOT the actual number needed. So no one should be jumping for joy or even being thankful as it was just a random number "supposedly".

Neways I wouls much rather have a way higher number of kills for the trials instead of a few items needed. And also so no hard feelings have the drops that was needed be worth say 5 kills. As far as the afterglow its more of a status symbol than anything else. But i dont know to many that are happy with just getting their Raja Ring and saying ah i dont care bout finishing the last 5 missions...

On a kinda side note obtaining the base weapons for these trials empys are pretty easy and now so are relics just takes a little time for either and can be solo'd. In my opinion relics are going to take a little more time to do. But Mythic weapons are insane to obtain and there is NO WAY of obtaining soloing at all. And yet you can hardly say any of them are better than the other. I dont have a mythic it would be nice but to me thats a slap in the face to people who have taken the time to do it!!!

[Lushipur]

they sounds good to me

edit: now dev team just need to adjust that 1500 metal plates...300-500 are fine

[Creelo]

The problem I have with this Relic trial is that it simply cannot be low-manned; it's completely inconsistent with how relics can be made now.

To get a relic, you don't need to have 18 people helping you. At most you'll probably need 1-2 other people to help you with Attestion/Fragment Trials. That's it.

How are future relic holders suppose to be able to get their Relics to 99 when everyone's said and done collecting their own Umbral Marrow?

Not to mention, could you imagine the drama that a trial like this could bring for shells that have 10+ Relics to upgrade?

"Who should get the Umbral Marrow?"

Personally, I would want to upgrade others' melee weapons over my own Gjallarhorn because they gain so much more at lvl 99, yet how am I to know that I would get the same help when it comes time for my own? Everyone knows how notorious it is for people to finish a Relic/Empy/Mythic and then just quit or take an "extended" break a week later lol

Pretty funny too, considering SE wanted to avoid drama through their horrid loot distribution system in VW.

This dev team is just not consistent. At all.

Ninja Edit: Ohohohoho, the dev team is consistent with one thing though: Disappointment.

[Zhronne]

The problem I have with this Relic trial is that it simply cannot be low-manned; it's completely inconsistent with how relics can be made now.

That's exactely the "Carrot on a stick" I was talking about.
The same "carrot on a stick" Camate was told to reassure us about.
The same "carrot on a stick" which wasn't supposed to be and that, just like most of us were afraid of, is happening.

You can solo a Relic, but then you need an alliance to get the last stage which was supposed to be "for everyone" because:

They don’t want to dangle a carrot in front of everyone saying, “you can make these weapons even more powerful!” and then make it so only small fraction of players achieve this.

It's completely unbalanced.
Tbh there would be a lot to say about Empyrean trial as well, but probably nobody cares anymore because lolempys etc.
The new WSs changed the in-game balance for the majority (all?) of empyrean weapons, the fact that we hardly play inside of abyssea anymore did the rest.
Atm Empyreans are looking to become inferior to their relic/mythic counterpart, but they're also looking harder to get to 99, considering the lv95 and lv99 cockblocks.
And we all know how players feel about doing something harder to get something weaker...
This doesn't sound very "balanced" to me. The 1500 plates was a cockblock big enough to stop people from further advancing into Empy trials, and it will be even harder in the future as people moves even more into newer content and Heavy Plates will become more and more and more and more rare.

[Zhronne]

Ninja Edit: Ohohohoho, the dev team is consistent with one thing though: Disappointment.

Right... can only think of disappointing things one after another since the patch after the level 95cap one came out.
How long has it been since then? An year? Almost... and one disappointment after another, with very very few welcome surprises.

[wish12oz]

Ninja Edit: Ohohohoho, the dev team is consistent with one thing though: Disappointment.

It's to bad Tanaka is so bad at developing FFXI, or these trials could of really been fun.

EDIT: Just to make it clear, 5 is to many for ADL drops, and why the *&^$ were the empyrean items required not lowered like the rest? Empyreans already cost more then relics with the BS 1500 plate trial, quit screwing them over.

[Nynja]

EDIT: Just to make it clear, 5 is to many for ADL drops, and why the *&^$ were the empyrean items required not lowered like the rest? Empyreans already cost more then relics with the BS 1500 plate trial, quit screwing them over.

Because no one bitched thinking the 1500 was a placeholder on the test server, which is why now we bitch because we know there are no placeholder numbers.

So because you have friends willing to repeat this mob for you at no gain to them (from the run itself), the trial is fine? Selfish much?

actually its at a loss of a couple million gil per person since they could be using that dynamis time to farm for themselves.