Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[FrankReynolds]

For the last sentence of my post that you quoted. Or if it's an LS event. Definitely don't think ADL is PUG content.

1-3 mil is 1-3 mil. If I go to dynamis, that is how much I am earning. Making it an LS event doesn't change that.

Fair terms.... You pay everyone 1-3 mil per ADL run.

If your theory about everybody needing it and helping out etc is correct, you should get your ~billion gil back in no time by helping out your LS mates right? It sounds good in your head, but would you bet your gil on it? If your theory is sound, all that gil will come back right?

[Runespider]

Is SE cool with someone like me feeling stuck? Would they like us to see nothing but unreachable goals and decide to leave the game? Would they like us to resort to RMT? Digging 1500 plates and 60 rift whatevers out of the trash dumpster known as Voidwatch is about as realistic a goal as winning rank 1 in the Mog Bonanza. Buying them would require many of us to win said rank 1 Mog Bonanza more than once.

I'm just trying to warn you SE, that the direction you're going in will backfire. Your goal is to keep people around, but you're doing anything but.

This is the problem really, we all want to keep playing FFXI but they are just trying to push us away from it and I don't see why. The goals they are giving are just too much and I can't believe they don't get it. Most people are opting out of upgrading trials because they are too long and stupid, these are wonderful time sinks that would keep many people paying the monthly sub cheaply but they put the carrot too far away.

I know SE of the past made goals that took years, most players don't want that anymore. They want goals that take 4-6 months tops and new goals afterwards. Yeah that's more work for the dev team but FFXI makes more than enough profits to warrant it.

[Kristal]

If it was a reasonable amount of kills that several relic holders could group together to do, that would at least be somewhat plausible. I could see myself helping with that once a week or once a month for x amount of times. Hopefully all the feedback will result in something more realistic for the relic holders.

The problem with kills is that it would be very unbalanced. PLD could equip Excalibur and Aegis, while MNK can only equip Spharai. And don't think you can come RDM/NIN (Excal+Mandau) either, because ADL doesn't strike me as a NM you want to PUG...
Oh, and don't forget you need to be alive for kills to count...

Throughout the whinestorm that has broken out, some people actually did suggest a few good options. For example, add Umbral Marrow as a type of 100 currency, so you have a very small chance to see it drop from NMs in Xarcabard, with DL always dropping 1, and ADL dropping several (pouch with 4~12). This puts relic 99 stage 1 at the difficulty of first two stages of the 75 relic (~20 [100]s), and relic 99 stage 2 at the difficulty of 7 completed 75 relics (7x~150 [100]s).

Possibly add the requirement that at least one ADL has to be killed for stage 1 trial.

[Runespider]

The problem with kills is that it would be very unbalanced. PLD could equip Excalibur and Aegis, while MNK can only equip Spharai. And don't think you can come RDM/NIN (Excal+Mandau) either, because ADL doesn't strike me as a NM you want to PUG...
Oh, and don't forget you need to be alive for kills to count...

Magian trial could give an all job ranged slot item to record the kills for the particular trial you wanted to do, when completed you trade the weapon and the ranged item to the box to complete it.

[Unctgtg]

I love everyone's logic. Trying to compare this game to 4 years ago. Not going to happen. SE really is driving players away. If they really do require us to get 20 ADLs items, they will hear it even more. They might have gotten the idea, of the number of topics, not just in the NA forums but the rest, we do not want this, and it is frankly stupid for them to even bring this into the game. 20 ADL kills for stage 2 would be sufficient.

[Vold]

The problem with kills is that it would be very unbalanced. PLD could equip Excalibur and Aegis, while MNK can only equip Spharai.

I don't see a problem here with a person knocking out two birds with one stone. Call it the one perk of being a PLD these days if you want. Not that I want a stupid ADL trial in any form.


Before I hit reply I just want to take this moment to say, Dear Dev team or more than likely just the Rep team because I doubt opinions are brought to the devs by name of the person who said it, I am well aware that this data here is not set in stone and nothing I have said assumes that it is set in stone. It is merely "saying it like it is" if they were to be set in stone which I assume is the point of you informing us so you can get feedback. Now, let's be real here. Those numbers would not be there if you weren't already 99.999% sure of them. Test sever data has held true so far going live aside from the few things that we heavily complained about in advance. You already dialed back stage 2, and stage 1 unfortunately at best will probably only be dialed back which no one wants because ADL sucks. My prediction: 5 ADL drops. But it is what it is and I would love to be proven wrong on this, even if it comes at another delay cost.

You can release figures like 9999 on the test server to sway complaints and perhaps you should because I do get tired of seeing test server data effect live server economies in advance, but be warned that it is better to get feedback and backlash more or less BEFORE something goes live, because we both know what happens when it happens for live content. We're waiting until the next update+ for anything to be done about it. I rather it just not be live until it's ready. Not to mention with every... questionable individual who completes such trials makes it increasingly harder to stick it to them. We all know the lv95 Empyrean plates are gonna get bitch slapped with an adjustment. Either they'll get cut down to size or plates will be made readily available. You're just waiting so it doesn't sting so much to the handful of people who threw their gil at it in the first couple weeks of going live. You admit this yourselves. It's not like I'm sensing it in the force or something, you openly admit to releasing hard and at a later date easing up so more people can get through it.

I don't want to wait several months on stage 1 adjustments because people like Atoreis jumped head first into the trials "weeeeeeeee I want to see lv99 on my weapon, price not an issue!!!" because they have nothing better to do than farm/buy for a trial that doesn't even exist on live servers yet. I guess something to do is better than nothing I just don't want to be the one suffering for it.

[Mahoro]

1-3 mil is 1-3 mil. If I go to dynamis, that is how much I am earning. Making it an LS event doesn't change that.

Fair terms.... You pay everyone 1-3 mil per ADL run.

If your theory about everybody needing it and helping out etc is correct, you should get your ~billion gil back in no time by helping out your LS mates right? It sounds good in your head, but would you bet your gil on it? If your theory is sound, all that gil will come back right?

Nope, because your opportunity cost theory doesn't apply to 100% of the people attending that LS event. Some will be relicholders who don't need to farm the 1-3 mill anymore. Some will be people who don't want a Relic/Mythic and so have no need to step into Dynamis to farm gil. Some will be people who want the Arch Boss drops in Xarca or other zones. Some people only log into the game for 3-4 hours a day, and on those nights they DO have LS events they don't do anything else so they don't mind using their Dynamis time because it would just go wasted anyway.

For all of the above people, the opportunity cost you cite is replaced by other drops or DKP, just as it is with ANY event someone attends in-game (i.e., just about everything you do in-game could be "replaced" by something in which you farm gil, including talking to people). As for the people who do farm 1-3 mill every day who skip an LS event, in the context of a large LS they likely won't find any help later on when their Relic is stuck at 95 for various reasons depending on shell policies or member temperament. in any event, a large LS won't spam Dyna. It would likely be an event mixed in under normal rotation with VW, WoE, Legion, Einherjar, etc., perhaps done 2-4 times a month or so.

[FrankReynolds]

. Some will be relicholders who don't need to farm the 1-3 mill anymore.

It will still be 2 hours that they could have spent making gil/gear etc. I dare say that these people know quite well the value of their time.

Some will be people who don't want a Relic/Mythic and so have no need to step into Dynamis to farm gil.

Then they probably won't do it for nothing.

Some will be people who want the Arch Boss drops in Xarca or other zones. For those people, the opportunity cost you cite is replaced by other drops or DKP.

These are not highly sought after. I wouldn't count on it.

As for the people who do farm 1-3 mill every day who skip, in the context of a large LS, at best they likely won't find any help later on when their Relic is 99. in any event, a large LS won't spam Dyna, it would likely be an event 2-4 times a month.

Regardless of how often you do it, or who you do it with, if you do an event that typically pays a bunch of cash and you don't pay anyone, they won't do it.

Just because a guy works as a plumber doesn't mean he will mow your lawn for free.

The opportunity cost theory applies to 100% of the people who have entered dynamis. Any time you enter dynamis, you have the option to either spend that time making money, or not making money.

[Mahoro]

It will still be 2 hours that they could have spent making gil/gear etc. I dare say that these people know quite well the value of their time.

Then they won't get their own relics to 99, per my post regarding LS policies or member temperament. It's cutting your nose off to spite your face, is it not? Also, it's possible some people stop farming the 1-3 mill once they obtain their Relic/Mythic, because these (and I suppose HMPs/Riftitems) are the only reason left in-game to HAVE hundreds of millions of gil.

Then they probably won't do it for nothing.

Read my post again. They aren't doing it for nothing.

These are not highly sought after. I wouldn't count on it.

Oneiros Grip, Avesta Bangles, Tjukurrpa Belt, and other Arch Boss drops are highly sought after by some people. In the context of a large LS, any Arch Boss event would rotate those events in.

Regardless of how often you do it, or who you do it with, if you do an event that typically pays a bunch of cash and you don't pay anyone, they won't do it.

They would, if you can replace that opportunity cost per my post. Not everything boils down to 1-3 mill, else nobody would ever do any LS events when they can just farm gil.

Keep in mind, I'm supportive of revising the trial because SE deliberately misled a majority of the playerbase with their proclamations regarding this trial. The point of my post is to illustrate the only feasible way the trial CAN be achieved, and how I would personally do it as one of the leaders of a large LS. The trial is actually quite flawed, because even in a large LS that does Dyna-Xarc 2-3 times a month, that means it will take years for every relic in a shell to be upgraded. Sadly, SE appears to only want a small percentage of Relics reach 99.

[Kristal]

Magian trial could give an all job ranged slot item to record the kills for the particular trial you wanted to do, when completed you trade the weapon and the ranged item to the box to complete it.

I'm sure COR, RNG, PUP and BRD would like to know where to sent the flowers. (COR and PUP would then remark they don't got relics anyway, but joined out of sympathy.)