Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Vold]

Even SE themselves question their decision with wording like "people will likely finish this" That is saying a lot. Nothing I say tops that. If SE feels it's going too far, it probably is. Rethink the trial or rethink ADL. One or the other. Either we can love you or hate you. It's your choice.

But like, are you guys trying to be the Ty Cobb of MMO developers? You've done so well up to this point with the trials and it's now all like... we want to be the Ty Cobb of MMO developers. We've had enough of this Babe Ruth shit for the past two years.

[Coldbrand]

I think now is the appropriate time for the Hachiryu/Shelong/Dorje/Nanatsusaya augments.

[VoiceMemo]

Perhaps SE does not understand the implications/cultural differences of people's ways of thinking.

To elaborate.

Before dynamis changes:
500k-1mil gil fee for the hourglass. Before you could justify/rationalize the help of 18+ people because if not for the funder to pay for the hourglass, the runs might not happen. So you could justify they getting all the currency. Granted yes this is not the way SE intended. Their vision was that every player contribute gil for the cost of the hourglass. The reality of it was that players did not want to do this way, at least in the North American region(as far as I can tell). This is why large dynamis shells existed.

After dynamis changes:
Dynamis is now accessible to anyone that can pay the one time fee of 50k. With this the player mindset has changed, because of this large dynamis shells have basically died. It's now all lowman, small groups. In the players mindset there is no justification of helping out and teaming up so 1 person can get an item.

So basically SE, IMO, brought this series of events on themselves. Because of the changes it only points to lowman groups for the North American/EU region. I believe the issue comes from cultural/upbringing differences between Japan and America/EU. That the Japanese players are more likely to team up vs the America/EU.

Granted now I'm only generalizing and stating my opinion. I for one continue to do dynamis to help those that helped me achieve relic from the days that required you to buy hourglasses. I do dynamis for basically nothing but to help those others that helped me get currency. I know not many share this way of thinking/loyalty but there probably are some out there that do have it.

I for one think that yes the final trial for relic should deal with something about teaming up. The way I've always viewed dynamis as a group of people teaming up for a singular effort. The more that stay with the group the more could complete relic in time. Back in the days of fee dynamis, I calculated with the appropriate numbers to kill we could complete a relic every 7 months. So "Ideally" yes, the final relic upgrade should have a team up aspect. Realistically though, with the way the game is now I don't really see it happening.

[Washburn]

I still haven't bought crysta. Camate, tell them i'll give them fifteen bucks to make the trial reasonable, and kill based, not item based.

[Kitkat]

Camate, sorry....Bang! ~shoots the messenger and gets a defending ring~

Anyway, the problem here isn't the fact of the number so much as the trial itself. Wording it in a way that says "Stage 1 will be set in such a way that most users with appropriate gear will complete" is vastly different from the trial that has been given. Emp has already had to collect items off VWNM for the last 3 trials, about the only positive to this is that they are getting items off content still done. Mythics and relics are being forced to continue to do content that no one wants to do in excess quantities because the trial requires an amount of fights per weapon user while offering little of nothing to the individuals helping because the drops are so outdated they aren't particularly useful to the individuals at all.

What was so wrong with collaborative kills? Is SE afraid that allowing people to get their lvl 99 to stage 1 is that overpowered? Stage 1 and stage 2 should not just be different amounts, but different requirements too. Especially if the "made as so that the majority of users will complete stage 1" comment is true.

[Dekusuta]

Perhaps SE does not understand the implications/cultural differences of people's ways of thinking.

To elaborate.

Before dynamis changes:
500k-1mil gil fee for the hourglass. Before you could justify/rationalize the help of 18+ people because if not for the funder to pay for the hourglass, the runs might not happen. So you could justify they getting all the currency. Granted yes this is not the way SE intended. Their vision was that every player contribute gil for the cost of the hourglass. The reality of it was that players did not want to do this way, at least in the North American region(as far as I can tell). This is why large dynamis shells existed.

After dynamis changes:
Dynamis is now accessible to anyone that can pay the one time fee of 50k. With this the player mindset has changed, because of this large dynamis shells have basically died. It's now all lowman, small groups. In the players mindset there is no justification of helping out and teaming up so 1 person can get an item.

So basically SE, IMO, brought this series of events on themselves. Because of the changes it only points to lowman groups for the North American/EU region. I believe the issue comes from cultural/upbringing differences between Japan and America/EU. That the Japanese players are more likely to team up vs the America/EU.

Granted now I'm only generalizing and stating my opinion. I for one continue to do dynamis to help those that helped me achieve relic from the days that required you to buy hourglasses. I do dynamis for basically nothing but to help those others that helped me get currency. I know not many share this way of thinking/loyalty but there probably are some out there that do have it.

I for one think that yes the final trial for relic should deal with something about teaming up. The way I've always viewed dynamis as a group of people teaming up for a singular effort. The more that stay with the group the more could complete relic in time. Back in the days of fee dynamis, I calculated with the appropriate numbers to kill we could complete a relic every 7 months. So "Ideally" yes, the final relic upgrade should have a team up aspect. Realistically though, with the way the game is now I don't really see it happening.

Too much cultural relativism. Japanese players do benefit from all being in the same timezone, but the the NA players had no problem fielding large teams back 3-4 years ago, some still do. But as a rule, most groups are smaller and play less now, and the differing time zones have narrowed the window of large groups playing together to a few hours a day, or even only on weekends now.

The fact of the matter is, the game has changed. People who started playing in 2004-2006 in school or university, graduated, got jobs, got married, had children. Or want to take it easy.

That is pretty much 90% of the message in this thread. Trying to rationalize SE's decisions with cultural relativity does the NA and EU community a disservice. Even assuming the premise you put forward is 100% true, which I don't think it is, We're not any less of a human being as consumers, just because the devs in Japan decided to make events that wouldn't suit us.

I do agree with you that the updates in the past 2 years have pointed towards a very different kind of game and for them to suddenly pull back and say 'oh by the way, you need to do 1,000 of these kills for 1 person's benefit' is callous. That I agree with you. They set themselves up for failure there.

At the end of the day, this game has a global audience and an aging one. SE appears to have not considered all the consequences and I'd hate for them to reconsider it by shaving off 10% off the trial requirements. That would be the worst case.

We need to push for a rethink

[Atomic_Skull]

And yet strangely you're still the anonymous one who thinks Trashtar is better than Mandau...k troll

Lots of relics are stronger then empyreans, and have been since day one, like dagger. Now quit trolling.

Please note that "troll" does not mean "someone who's opinion differs from my own"

People in here talk like no one plays in a LS anymore. Granted, the balance has shifted towards lowman content, but is seriously no one of you in a LS that would be willing to help their own relic owners with ADL?

That's pretty much what it is. They abandoned their big shells when Abyssea came out because they thought they would never need them again and now they are screwed because they tossed away the system of mutual support and personal favors they had built up over several years to dual box everything in godmode land never imagining that SE might make a U turn. Now they are raging because they're going to have to go back to a big shell and work their way up from the bottom again if they want to finish their relics.

[Nala]

thing is you are a troll though, look back at your many posts on the blood rage nerfs and all the tasty tear comments.

[Nynja]

Please note that "troll" does not mean "someone who's opinion differs from my own"



That's pretty much what it is. They abandoned their big shells when Abyssea came out because they thought they would never need them again and now they are screwed because they tossed away the system of mutual support and personal favors they had built up over several years to dual box everything in godmode land never imagining that SE might make a U turn. Now they are raging because they're going to have to go back to a big shell and work their way up from the bottom again if they want to finish their relics.

Your opinion of "Twashtar is better than mandau" is as much of an opinion as "full perle/pink is the best armor set to use"...aka you're trolling.

who dropped shells cuz you could MNK+WHM glavoid? It just means the cliques in certain LS's became more restricted.

[Muras]

Perhaps the Dev team could add multiple trials for us to do that lead to the same result, much like the relic armor +2? For example, they can keep their ridiculous trials that involve Pandemonium Warden/Arch Dynamis Lord/whatever else, but add another trial that's perhaps lowman but equally challenging? Like, maybe make it so that you need x amount of forgotten items equivalent to the other trial (Whatever it may be) to upgrade, say, Apocalypse. Variety and choice is good, didn't you know?

The dev team still seems to be living in the past, and making design choices that worked in the early 2000s. The game itself has changed a lot over the years, and more recently the player base has moved away from huge group content. Some hate this, but I think most like this. Most modern MMOs are going this direction. The reason is because smart game developers are realising most people in the world have a life, and they can't spend hours upon hours doing one little thing. This includes gathering up an army of people. Most people can only log on for an hour or two at most per day, sometimes only a few times a week. So, when you design MMO content, which way will draw in more people and make your company more money? Making stuff that people can do, and do right now and not later and actually ENJOY, or making frustrating, hair pulling, time consuming nonsense?

The devs seriously need to stop and just look at the game through the eyes of the player for once. Most people aren't gonna bother doing these trials. And maybe that's intentional. But I have to ask, why? Do the devs feel good going to bed every day knowing that only a small portion of their customers are doing content they worked on for who knows how long? And I don't just mean Voidwatch. I'm talking about Ballista, Brenner, Chocobo Racing, ANNMs, Walk of Echoes, the new KCNMs.

I remember an interview with one of the devs a long time ago, I can't remember who it was, but they said they don't add rewards to a lot of the events I mentioned because it'd take away from it's "charm". But I have to ask, what charm is there in an event nobody does? Ballista is fun, but I can't enjoy it because nobody else is motivated to do it. And in comparison, is this what they think relics/mythics/empys are too? If too many people have them it takes away from their charm or, as they once put it when adding mythics, the "prestige" of the weapon? Who in their right mind enjoys gawking at a few select people who have something you'll never get to have? How are we to motivate others to help if they too likely want upgrade items? The chance at other, less desirable, low drop rate items? If you ask me, the dev team is planting the seeds of depression, and the motivation to quit.

I've said this in a previous post a long time ago, but... Can't the devs just do what we say for once? Even if it's just on the test server so we can actually see if the game really breaks? They're so worried about "balance" but how can they claim that when they don't even try what we say? As others have mentioned, what is the test server for? Why does it seem like all our feedback is always ignored except for pointless stuff like the order of things in the outpost teleport NPC menus? Games are supposed to be fun, not depressing and frustrating. What on earth is apparently wrong with these game developers?

Get some surveys out to ask and find out if everyone really hates all this crap, but as far as I'm concerned the players have spoken, and the devs need to stop acting like dictators. Let's see some change already.