Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Insaniac]

Making these just be kills would be fine. In an MMO you want to make your players feel like working toghether is good for everyone. This is why VNM trials are easier / fun to do with pick up groups. Imagine if everyone had to get 8 chesma(insert any other vnm) drops instead of kills. Instead of fostering companionship and working in groups you would have small groups camping the heck out of them and you either go camp with a group yourself or get frustrated and give up.

SE had the right idea making them kills before, i dont know why we are reverting, to "get 1% chance to get something you need 1 million of" method.

Further down the line kills and "get x item" is NOT the same. You can always find someone who is either doing a second weapon or missed the train just like you. The difference is that if its kills, People will band toghether for shout groups since it will be of benefit to everyone, if its item drop, no one is going to do shouts groups with people they dont know / might steal the item / might not get around to my turn.

The problem is you need a specific set-up to kill ADL. Shout for people who recently finished relics and you are going to get 3 BSTs 4 PLDs 2 THFs and 3 DRKs. Good luck getting the WHMs SMNs and CORs.

Edit: You know this is probably why SE thought that item trials would be a good idea. It frees people to go on whatever job they want so that finishing a 99 guttler or claustrum(lol) doesn't become impossible. I don't know how they couldn't have come up with a better way though. This just seems so incredibly lazy. They could have added a random drop item to normal dynamis mobs that you get around 20 of per run and need 500 of. There are so many better options. Timed dynamis NM kills or just a simple 1000 currency.

[Creelo]

Relic and mythic trials are both terrible as long as they involve ADL and PW. In fact 20 kills would very quickly be just as bad or worse than 5-10 items. "Kills" means that 2 months down the road when everyone has their 99 relic anyone who missed the train is SoL. A Linkshell may be willing to set up runs to clear 10-12 people at a time but one guy who needs 20 kills is just as fucked as one person who need 20 items. At that point it's essentially the same trial.

I definitely will have to agree with this. I do think kills would be better than items (20 Kills compared to 20 Umbral Marrows), but I just don't know how this would play out in the future... Unless each server has that one crazy person that is constantly going to be killing ADL on a regular basis (and would let you team up with them for the kills), you probably are going to be SOL after the first wave of relics finish getting to 99. Who knows if that crazy player would be killing ADL near your time zone either.

And then there are the problems of setting up a run for ADL that you also mentioned, which is fairly job specific, so people with relics may not even be able to attend the right job for ADL.

I do like the idea of relic holders banding together to finish their last trials, instead of knifing each other in the back to try to get their own Umbral Marrow, but man... >.<

[wish12oz]

Relic and mythic trials are both terrible as long as they involve ADL and PW. In fact 20 kills would very quickly be just as bad or worse than 5-10 items. "Kills" means that 2 months down the road when everyone has their 99 relic anyone who missed the train is SoL.

I disagree with this simply because relics are so easy to make, and people with them tend to have multiples. It would be a very long time before you couldn't find enough people to help with this IMO.

[Insaniac]

I disagree with this simply because relics are so easy to make, and people with them tend to have multiples. It would be a very long time before you couldn't find enough people to help with this IMO.

This still doesn't change the fact that you will need a lot of non relic members in these groups. WHMs CORs BRDs and at least 3 SMNs. All pretty unlikely to have a relic that needs upgrading. You also wont be able to go in with more than 1-2 leech DDs like BSTs and THFs. Kill trials on a demanding fight don't work.

[Nynja]

Trying to find 18 people who have completed the 1500 metal plate stage is going to be considerably harder.

Emp stage requires rift*** items, which drop from alima/rex...mob routinely farmed, therefor these items will naturally be created

[Arcon]

People in here talk like no one plays in a LS anymore. Granted, the balance has shifted towards lowman content, but is seriously no one of you in a LS that would be willing to help their own relic owners with ADL?

[Nynja]

People in here talk like no one plays in a LS anymore. Granted, the balance has shifted towards lowman content, but is seriously no one of you in a LS that would be willing to help their own relic owners with ADL?

As has been pointed out...you can pop only 1 ADL per run, and with the random nature of the fight, you will have a 75% killrate. It will take a month to clear out one persons relic.

What happens when u have 12 relics in your ls? Spend a year upgading everyones relic to 99? Remember this is dynamis time lost where ppl may be trying to upgrade their own relics, farm currency for gil, farm AF to upgrade...etc

[Syao]

The problem for my shell is that everyone has a relic or two, who decides who gets what first, I see no fair way to do it without potential to screw a lot of people over. I'm not selfish enough to make other people get me 20 ADL items when I can't guarantee I will be able to do ADL for a year or more.

[Anewie]

People in here talk like no one plays in a LS anymore. Granted, the balance has shifted towards lowman content, but is seriously no one of you in a LS that would be willing to help their own relic owners with ADL?

this^ my ls is decent and has a decent rooster.

Sure, my opinion is pretty outlandish, but there are plenty of people who ant archaon and sagasinger. People will complete this NO PROBLEM. Sure, ittle be annoying and take some time, but it's no way impossible for linkshells like mine. And my ls is nothing more than an average sized/skilled group.

[Anewie]

The problem for my shell is that everyone has a relic or two, who decides who gets what first, I see no fair way to do it without potential to screw a lot of people over. I'm not selfish enough to make other people get me 20 ADL items when I can't guarantee I will be able to do ADL for a year or more.

Um.. one person at a time? Sure, the leader will go first, but the leader obviously does the most work and shoiuld have priority. This is not selfish, it's common sense.

Someone doing more work and has more history, should go first. That's fair. Why have we lost this mindset?

Sure people can ABUSE it, but not everyone is a douche.