[dev1047] Thoughts/Feedback on "Legion"

[Dragoy]

I am glad to FINALLY see something with an Einherjar-esque reward-system (Therion Ichor).
There should be more things that reward everyone no matter what, and what's most important, equally (hoping so any ways).

I don't think I will be participating in Legion (as named at the time of typing, formerly The Last Stand) due to the amount of player-characters required, and the high entry cost.
Obviously it is not that high for a group of 18-36 characters, but as many others, I doubt it will be easy to gather such groups unless there is something that everyone can reasonably get out of it.
The cost is no doubt to help prevent players from doing this 'too much', and there will likely be a time limit on re-entry because of 'congestion', and I'm sure 'time-sink' is a part of it, too, to keep players playing longer and so forth.

Many will say it's as lazy as 'new' content can get.
It may bee, but if they do this right, it might be fun (like so many other things could be, but... right).
I may try it for fun with a few friends, if we're able to enter, but I don't see myself really spending time with anything like this these days...

Good luck, I guess~

[tyrantsyn]

Starting to sound like Horde mode from GOW or Zombie's from COD. I guess that could be really cool if it's done right.

[Manicora]

I have hopes that I know will be shattered by SE and the Fuktards who think they should "Tweek" this Idea. A Serious group of players go in, and Kill as many mobs as they can, and Get great rewards that Not everyone can. They Spam this event as often as they can until everyone gets there Items and They move on.
Sadly this probably will not be the case, since SE likes to modify decent plans to Give everyone a random chance to get something so even if you happen to clear the whole event, you may get only a Log or ingot that NPC's for 1-5k GL all

[Tile]

I have hopes that I know will be shattered by SE and the Fuktards who think they should "Tweek" this Idea. A Serious group of players go in, and Kill as many mobs as they can, and Get great rewards that Not everyone can. They Spam this event as often as they can until everyone gets there Items and They move on.
Sadly this probably will not be the case, since SE likes to modify decent plans to Give everyone a random chance to get something so even if you happen to clear the whole event, you may get only a Log or ingot that NPC's for 1-5k GL all

thats why there is a Point system. each kill gives you X amount of points, you then spend those on the items you want.

if you did einherjar you'd see exactly where this is going, the mobs will drop maybe 2-3 gear sets (Einherjar had abj.) but most of the stuff was from the point system.

[Alhanelem]

Perhaps you don't know anybody personally, but people in this thread have already expressed their excitement.

People in this thread have also expressed their disdain and/or concern, so I fail to see your point. pointing out that one or more people in this thread like the idea of the event before having participated in it is not a scientific means of gauging interest. I'd wager a majority (meaning at least 51%) of FFXI players don't even read these forums, much less post.

[Tile]

People in this thread have also expressed their disdain and/or concern, so I fail to see your point. pointing out that one or more people in this thread like the idea of the event before having participated in it is not a scientific means of gauging interest. I'd wager a majority (meaning at least 51%) of FFXI players don't even read these forums, much less post.

only 2 or 3 people in my LS would read the forum, want to say 8 didn't know about them. rest don't go cause they thiink that either the info is not worth learning, or they think its pointless cause no one's voice gets heard

[Mahoro]

People in this thread have also expressed their disdain and/or concern, so I fail to see your point. pointing out that one or more people in this thread like the idea of the event before having participated in it is not a scientific means of gauging interest. I'd wager a majority (meaning at least 51%) of FFXI players don't even read these forums, much less post.

I never said it was. However, it's an undisputed way to rebut your comment that you don't know anybody who is excited about the idea of needing a full alliance to do an event. After reading this thread, now you do. Don't know how to make the point clearer that you say you fail to see. People are excited about the "IDEA" (your words) of a full alliance event. Obviously, we haven't tried it yet. Are we not allowed to express excitement until we participate in something, yet you are allowed to express your disdain?

[Camate]

I have returned yet again to share some additional responses to feedback in regards to the new Legion content.

Are there essentially only 2 (for 18 or 36 players) difficulty levels?
Does this mean that it would be very difficult to attempt the battle for 36 players with only 19 players?
Would it be possible to set the battle for 18 players at the easiest setting and gradually increase the difficulty for each additional player participating? I think that would be more enjoyable for the players.

I think it would be best to set the lowest difficulty setting for the minimum possible number of participating players and gradually increase the difficulty for each additional player participating.

I understand that adjusting the balance would probably be difficult, but it would be great if difficulty settings for 6, 12, 18, 24, 30 and 36 players can be prepared.

In order to prevent all players from participating in this content with a 6 player party, a bonus that increases with the number of players participating can be implemented.

A special point system can be implemented, in which more bonus points are awarded when more players are participating.

The difficulty for the 36 player version will not be twice as difficult as the 18 player version. The difference will not be large enough to cause a significant disadvantage.

In terms of efficiency, it would definitely be more efficient to participate with exactly 18 or 36 players, but it is still possible to participate in this content with fewer players, although efficiency would be sacrificed. In other words, it is not necessary to gather 36 players, and the difficulty settings will be set so that it is still possible to complete this content with 19 players.
　
Differences in battle strength will not affect the strength of the monsters, but instead will affect the number of monsters the party is able to defeat.

The fact that legion content is not based on completion/fail basis is the biggest difference from usual battlefields. If the enemies’ strength is changed linearly with the number of players participating, parties of 19 or 36 players would be able to defeat the same number of monsters. This would greatly alter the foundation of this content, including how loot is distributed.

Finally, the minimum number of players necessary to participate in this content is intentionally set lower than the number of players necessary to effectively participate in this content. This is because we do not want to set system limitations so that players are unable to creatively take on a very difficult challenge. I think it would be fun for players to attempt challenges such as trying to defeat only one monster with a very small party.

I apologize if this question has been asked before.

What will happen to the items in the loot pool once 30 minutes are up?
If the loot is placed at the entrance after the battle, as was the case with Limbus, the loot will remain in the loot pool, which gives players about 5 minutes to distribute the loot.
From what I can tell, it seems like players will be sent out to Sauromugue after the battle.

Actually, I was trying to test this out while soloing and failed miserably. I got demolished by turtles, snakes and wyrms... lol

This content is a continuous battle against monsters, so I’m sure there will be occasions where a monster is defeated right before time is up. I would be very disappointed if these efforts are for naught, so I would like to know how the time limit and loot distribution will actually work.

There is no need to worry. In order for players to be able to enjoy the battle right until the end, we will prepare time, which is separate from the time limit, for players to distribute loot. To be specific, once the time limit is up, players will be transferred to the lobby area, where they will have 5 minutes to lot on loot.

Since it seems like items are distributed through the lotting system, is this a good representation of the loot system in legion?

Less players
Pros: Less lotting competition (If 6 players are going after 1 item, there is a 16% chance of obtaining the item)
Cons: Less monsters defeated (less item drops), More responsibility for players during the battle
More players
Pros: More monsters defeated (more item drops), Less responsibility for players during the battle
Cons: More lotting competition (If 36 players are going after 1 item, there is a 2% chance of obtaining the item)

With regard to loot, players can obtain loot either through trading Legion points or through the lotting system. If a lot of monsters are defeated by many players, there will be more loot dropped, which means there are more chances to obtain loot. Even if a player fails to obtain an item through lotting, that player accumulates Legion points with each run, which will allow the player to possibly trade for the item. With more players, there certainly is more competition when lotting on an item, but considering that there are more loot items dropped, the probability of obtaining an item will not drop as severely as you mentioned.

[Septimus]

I have returned yet again to share some additional responses to feedback in regards to the new Legion content.




The difficulty for the 36 player version will not be twice as difficult as the 18 player version. The difference will not be large enough to cause a significant disadvantage.

In terms of efficiency, it would definitely be more efficient to participate with exactly 18 or 36 players, but it is still possible to participate in this content with fewer players, although efficiency would be sacrificed. In other words, it is not necessary to gather 36 players, and the difficulty settings will be set so that it is still possible to complete this content with 19 players.
　
Differences in battle strength will not affect the strength of the monsters, but instead will affect the number of monsters the party is able to defeat.

The fact that legion content is not based on completion/fail basis is the biggest difference from usual battlefields. If the enemies’ strength is changed linearly with the number of players participating, parties of 19 or 36 players would be able to defeat the same number of monsters. This would greatly alter the foundation of this content, including how loot is distributed.

Finally, the minimum number of players necessary to participate in this content is intentionally set lower than the number of players necessary to effectively participate in this content. This is because we do not want to set system limitations so that players are unable to creatively take on a very difficult challenge. I think it would be fun for players to attempt challenges such as trying to defeat only one monster with a very small party.


There is no need to worry. In order for players to be able to enjoy the battle right until the end, we will prepare time, which is separate from the time limit, for players to distribute loot. To be specific, once the time limit is up, players will be transferred to the lobby area, where they will have 5 minutes to lot on loot.



With regard to loot, players can obtain loot either through trading Legion points or through the lotting system. If a lot of monsters are defeated by many players, there will be more loot dropped, which means there are more chances to obtain loot. Even if a player fails to obtain an item through lotting, that player accumulates Legion points with each run, which will allow the player to possibly trade for the item. With more players, there certainly is more competition when lotting on an item, but considering that there are more loot items dropped, the probability of obtaining an item will not drop as severely as you mentioned.

Why is the Dev Team so in love with large-group activities? I don't even know 36 other people who play this game anymore, and I don't want to recruit a bunch of people into a linkshell or quit my LS which has been my home for nearly 7 years just so I can join a large LS where the Leader and his friends will magically have the points to have sole lotting rights to every piece of gear. This game it too old to support large-group events anymore.

[Scribble]

Why is the Dev Team so in love with large-group activities? I don't even know 36 other people who play this game anymore, and I don't want to recruit a bunch of people into a linkshell or quit my LS which has been my home for nearly 7 years just so I can join a large LS where the Leader and his friends will magically have the points to have sole lotting rights to every piece of gear. This game it too old to support large-group events anymore.

Why so dramatic? You don't have to quit your LS or make another one. You aren't required to find 36 people to participate. I'm certain there will be enough interest that you'll be able to find a group.

Points don't accrue magically. You get them for participating. It's an event with built in DKP where you decide which items you want without some screwy priority system based on how much you suck up to an LS leader. Sounds like win to me.