[dev1047] Thoughts/Feedback on "Legion"

[FrankReynolds]

Making ALL of Abyssea's +2 trinkets/gear purchasable by points would drastically decrease the event's shelf life. This has been borne out by Fell Cleave cruor parties, has it not? People are making Cruor hand over fist. Imagine if they could purchase +2 trinkets for every job with this Cruor. Bam, dead event walking. People already mostly look the same in their +2 armor. Do you want Joe Schmoe and his 17-WHM mule cruor strikeforce to trade in their ill-gotten gains for instant +2?

If it costed 360k to enter abyssea, and you could only stay for 30 minutes, then there really would be no problem. Making the points requirement for gear high enough that it is still in most cases faster to get the gear through random drops, ensures that people will continue to do the event as intended, but know that if things don't go their way they will eventually get the drop. There are no fodder mobs to grind out in legion. The only way to get points is to kill the same NMs you would have to kill anyways.

See above. Ironically, making all gear in an event purchasable by points could potentially lead to a grindfest in and of itself, and require 200+ events per item to acquire some of the best rewards. Your argument makes no allowance for this.

There is no allowance to be made. If it takes 200 events to get Item X to drop, or it takes 200 events to buy Item X with points, the outcome is the same. The only difference is that with points, you know that when you hit 200 events item X will be yours. Without points, you invariably get more and more depressed after every event where you get no drop. There is no alternate route like cruor farming in legion. You can't just go kill 2,000 mandrigoras instead of fighting the NM 20 times.


There will never be a perfect event tailored to you that is somehow so hard that other people can't do it, but easy enough that you and your friends can. There will always be a million people running around in the same gear unless SE decides to give us a dat swapping function in game.

[Kuwabaraone]

Thanks for the Post Fransisco. Sadly, I lost some good friends because of the current plans that the 'Old' Development team is implementing, and you are correct. The LS that I was in, at best, had 12 members that remained active. With this new system, we cannot possibly achieve victory under the expected conditions. Bad blood from other players aside, the issue goes to loot rates and mobs present. Sure, it would test our skills and allow us to cooperate better, but it's only natural that issues of who gets what inbetween alliances will cause problems. Hopefully, the 'Old' Development Team will take this into consideration.

KB1

[Babekeke]

Thanks for the Post Fransisco. Sadly, I lost some good friends because of the current plans that the 'Old' Development team is implementing, and you are correct. The LS that I was in, at best, had 12 members that remained active. With this new system, we cannot possibly achieve victory under the expected conditions. Bad blood from other players aside, the issue goes to loot rates and mobs present. Sure, it would test our skills and allow us to cooperate better, but it's only natural that issues of who gets what inbetween alliances will cause problems. Hopefully, the 'Old' Development Team will take this into consideration.

KB1

Free lot it all. Fixed

[Tile]

the reason I dont care if some one pays to bring in there mules, and leechs like 3 kills for 360k is the fact they wont be able to sell anything they get. all item you got with points in einherjar, and items from limbus were r/ex won't be surprised if all these are too.

[Mahoro]

If it costed 360k to enter abyssea, and you could only stay for 30 minutes, then there really would be no problem. Making the points requirement for gear high enough that it is still in most cases faster to get the gear through random drops, ensures that people will continue to do the event as intended, but know that if things don't go their way they will eventually get the drop. There are no fodder mobs to grind out in legion. The only way to get points is to kill the same NMs you would have to kill anyways.

We actually don't know yet what will be considered "fodder" and what won't be. Looking at the monster list in Legion, there are clearly mob types that are easier than the others. These will likely be targeted for "Legion point farming" by smaller groups like Kuwabaroanes. Your example of 2,000 Mandragoras might be the equivalent to this.

Not sure what your point is re: the perfect event in relation to what I said. I would submit Abyssea and Einherjar were as close to perfect events as this game ever saw. Those weren't "easy for me but hard for others" as your requirements stated.

[Zaknafein]

the reason I dont care if some one pays to bring in there mules, and leechs like 3 kills for 360k is the fact they wont be able to sell anything they get. all item you got with points in einherjar, and items from limbus were r/ex won't be surprised if all these are too.

Hopefully that is the case.

[FrankReynolds]

We actually don't know yet what will be considered "fodder" and what won't be. Looking at the monster list in Legion, there are clearly mob types that are easier than the others. These will likely be targeted for "Legion point farming" by smaller groups like Kuwabaroanes. Your example of 2,000 Mandragoras might be the equivalent to this.

Not sure what your point is re: the perfect event in relation to what I said. I would submit Abyssea and Einherjar were as close to perfect events as this game ever saw. Those weren't "easy for me but hard for others" as your requirements stated.

It was in reference to the often repeated complaint that everyone is walking around in +2. Many people seem to think that they should have better gear than the rest of the populace and are upset by other players wearing the same gear as them. There is nothing you can do that someone else can't do, and in most cases there is more than one way to do it. People are always going to go after the best gear, and they are always going to wear it when they get it. This trend has always existed, and will never go away.

As for the fodder mobs, I think your being a little paranoid.

[Mahoro]

It was in reference to the often repeated complaint that everyone is walking around in +2. Many people seem to think that they should have better gear than the rest of the populace and are upset by other players wearing the same gear as them. There is nothing you can do that someone else can't do, and in most cases there is more than one way to do it. People are always going to go after the best gear, and they are always going to wear it when they get it. This trend has always existed, and will never go away.

Er ok, that wasn't where I was going with that, but sure, I agree. But while it may be true, there is no reason to speed up that process (or open it up to exploitative behavior) by allowing all Abyssea gear to be purchased by cruor, or all Limbus gear to be purchased by beastcoins. Each event would soon be worthless because nobody would ever fight the actual bosses. When Joe Schmoe and his 17-mule Fell Cleave ally can purchase complete sets of +2 from the NPC, that's when you know the event is DOA.

Back on topic, I wonder if Legion is a way of "making amends" with the playerbase for the unforgiving VW reward system and our cry for points systems. I am excited to see how it goes. Thanks for the continual updates Camate.

[Dekusuta]

Legion is stillborn already with their old 2005 SE mentality and planning

Points system is needed, or at worst, VW's box loot system, but even that has the problem of R/E items going to the wrong person all the time. How about a way to put items into the pool?

Really, there's no way this can can support linkshells with 36+ players (18 is already pushing it and those only happen with a lot of mules or VW shouting) unless its like Walk of Echoes where anyone can participate and even that event is a wasteland when I play during NA prime time on my server.

SE is so completely out of touch it's not even funny.

[Mahoro]

Legion is stillborn already with their old 2005 SE mentality and planning

Points system is needed, or at worst, VW's box loot system, but even that has the problem of R/E items going to the wrong person all the time. How about a way to put items into the pool?

Really, there's no way this can can support linkshells with 36+ players (18 is already pushing it and those only happen with a lot of mules or VW shouting) unless its like Walk of Echoes where anyone can participate and even that event is a wasteland when I play during NA prime time on my server.

SE is so completely out of touch it's not even funny.

It sounds like you may not have skimmed the devs' posts in this thread. There is a points system in Legion, and you don't need 18 to finish the event. There are two levels of "difficulty" for groups of 18 or groups of 36, but each level does not mean you need the full 18 or 36 to participate. You can enter and get stuff done with a party of 6 or 12. Loot drops in the shared loot pool instead of individual chests.