[dev1047] Thoughts/Feedback on "Legion"

[Runespider]

Game isn't going anywhere. MMO's still run with 3,000 subscribers, and FF has many, many times more than that.

You realise FFXI is direct competition for FFXIV right? (that game they are throwing developers and money at) Player numbers mean nothing in a situation like this. It's not like there are hordes of WoW players that are constantly checking on FFXIV to see if it's going to be worth trying at v2, it's XI players. One game scavenges the players from the other, hell half the returnees are disgruntled XIV players.

The sheer amount of money and staff they have on XIV shows me that they care more for that than XI (and it's losing them vast amounts of money too), and given what I wrote above I don't really feel too assured by what you wrote. Any other MMO? sure, this one.. not so much.

When V2 launches do you think they will have a a strong XI update for instance or as little as possible to make us try v2 out of boredom? The leader of FFXIV moving back to XI and ushering in a torrent of crap makes more and more sense all the time..

[Mahoro]

I realize where the bulk of the programming resources are. Doesn't matter for purposes of my point. There will always be peaks and eddies of content. Perhaps when FFXIV V2 is launched, we will get some more resources back. Point is that the number of subscribers will still be here to justify it. Game isn't going anywhere.

And if you want to talk about concurrent launches and whether they will give us "as little as possible to make us try v2 out of boredom", I should probably remind you of the following:

Vision of Abyssea (Release date: June 21, 2010).
Scars of Abyssea (Release date: September 8, 2010).
Heroes of Abyssea (Release date: December 6, 2010).

Final Fantasy XIV
Release date(s) Microsoft Windows
Collector's Edition
September 22, 2010
Standard Edition
September 30, 2010

Yeah, they really LOVE giving us "as little as possible" so we'd try out a new game...

[zagam]

I realize where the bulk of the programming resources are. Doesn't matter for purposes of my point. There will always be peaks and eddies of content. Perhaps when FFXIV V2 is launched, we will get some more resources back. Point is that the number of subscribers will still be here to justify it. Game isn't going anywhere.

And if you want to talk about concurrent launches and whether they will give us "as little as possible to make us try v2 out of boredom", I should probably remind you of the following:




Yeah, they really LOVE giving us "as little as possible" so we'd try out a new game...

You're fighting with a brick wall here. The guy has been proven wrong many times about boogie man tanaka and still refuses to believe that his precious abyssea was a tanaka product.

[Runespider]

Your fighting with a brick wall here. The guy has been proven wrong many times about boogie man tanaka and still refuses to believe that his precious abyssea was a tanaka product.

I dunno what you're talking about, I always said he was an awesome and talented dev team leader, making fun and engaging content for an ever changing MMO playerbase, I have no doubt at all that while working hard on making FFXIV he was also right in there making Abyssea too, any normal person would be unable or dissallowed to work on 2 important projects at once but this ofc is an exception. I mean look at how successfull FFXIV turned out to be, how can you not see his signature decisions in both titles that he simultaneously worked on?...Abyssea=FFXIV..it's like a mirror image of amazing game design.

Every moment that passes the XIV playerbase yearns for his return.

[Ravenmore]

Yeah look at the 180 they did after abyssea when they had to try to keep us around for the least amount of money they could get away with. And we have been getting nothing but reskins and rehashes since WoTG nothing new or fresh (a couple new mob .dats is don't count). Is years gone past there was always something coming now its they are just stringing us along till 2.0 sinks or swims. Its is clear to anyone but the Whiteknights. Also other MMOs don't give excusses that they don't have the funds for the game while dumping pile after pile into a game that has already failed.

[Arcon]

Every moment that passes the XIV playerbase yearns for his return.

I'm pretty sure you don't know the first thing about XIV, nor anyone who plays it. Go to their forums and just do a generic search for "Tanaka" and see for yourself. Most people are actually praising him, not usually for his work on XIV but on other games. They don't have a problem with him there, not nearly as much as you Abyssea white knights. You're blinded by your passion for Abyssea to the point that you make up shit to argue the fact that Tanaka was in charge during that time, because you're looking for reasons why they're changing their course away from Abyssea. However, it never once occured to you to blame the players who whined about it all the time, complained about every single aspect of it and actually wished for things to change away from some of the core ideas behind it. No, you cannot possibly blame the players, because that would ruin your main argument that "everyone loved Abyssea", which is pure und utter bullshit, and I'm starting to believe that you're starting to realize that yourself.

Yeah look at the 180 they did after abyssea when they had to try to keep us around for the least amount of money they could get away with.

And we have been getting nothing but reskins and rehashes since WoTG nothing new or fresh (a couple new mob .dats is don't count).

Those two statements (your first and second sentence) contradict each other. First you say they changed completely and became lazy after Abyssea, then you go and say that they've been lazy ever since WotG. Hint: only the second sentence is correct. You know that Abyssea came after WotG, right? Almost zero investment on their part, only generic content aimed at disguising the fact that they were lazy and try to keep us on the hook while they get the game to 99. They didn't do a 180 after Abyssea, they've held a steady course, even before it.

It's kinda ironic you two are calling people SE's white knights if they defend their current course when you're doing the exact same thing with Abyssea. You ignore other peoples' opinions and even logical reasons for why it sucked just to play your broken record that Abyssea was great and everything since sucks.

[saevel]

I dunno what you're talking about, I always said he was an awesome and talented dev team leader, making fun and engaging content for an ever changing MMO playerbase, I have no doubt at all that while working hard on making FFXIV he was also right in there making Abyssea too, any normal person would be unable or dissallowed to work on 2 important projects at once but this ofc is an exception. I mean look at how successfull FFXIV turned out to be, how can you not see his signature decisions in both titles that he simultaneously worked on?...Abyssea=FFXIV..it's like a mirror image of amazing game design.

Every moment that passes the XIV playerbase yearns for his return.

Tanaka most definitely wasn't involved with FFXI during the early part of 2010. He may of a had a nameplate on a desk somewhere, but he wasn't involved in making content decisions, this is obvious when you compare WoTG (2009 era) FFXI to Abyssea (2010 - early~mid 2011) FFXI to Post-Abyssea LogWatch (late 2011~2012) FFXI. We went from stagnant growth with near zero content being added to the greatest expansion pack since CoP (I consider all three Abyssea's one expansion) to a near 180 degree reversal and the single most hated loot / cheapest content every created (LogWatch).

During that one year ish period of time that Tanaka was focused on making FFXIV successful (he failed btw) they buffed everything, rearranged some jobs, added tons of awesome gear, the greatest WS's ever made (except a few), awesome spells, and crazy awesome content-specific buffs (Atma / Abyssite). After that it's been nothing but nerfs and developers talking in circles on how they want to bring the game back to 75 era FFXI and "Barance". FFXI Abyssea kicked so much a$$ that the guy responsible for this work was made responsible for making FFXIV 2.0, he apparently brought most of his team with him.

You can not defend Tanaka or dismiss both the responsibility and credit for not only making FFXIV into the steaming pile of crap it was but of also trying to break FFXI even more then it is. This guy was so messed up that even the JP's went crazy and started complaining up a storm. That round of JP complaining has prompted some of the recent announcements to look into buffs for things we've been complaining about for months / years.

Anyhow, I'm hoping Legion has decent drop rates for the gear it has. Otherwise it'll turn into VoidWatch 2.0.

[Ravenmore]

It's kinda ironic you two are calling people SE's white knights if they defend their current course when you're doing the exact same thing with Abyssea. You ignore other peoples' opinions and even logical reasons for why it sucked just to play your broken record that Abyssea was great and everything since sucks.

No What I like about abyssera was the reward/effort what I hated the rekin crap. It was clear that abyssea was the last big bang. It was a 180 on rewards but you are so blinded by the trying to make love to SE to tell what they did a 180 on. We went from rewarding content(no fresh content) to 1% drop rates and more crappy reskins. Look at all the good "new" gear that was released with the lasted round of VWNM its lazy crap.

[Arcon]

No What I like about abyssera was the reward/effort what I hated the rekin crap. It was clear that abyssea was the last big bang. It was a 180 on rewards but you are so blinded by the trying to make love to SE to tell what they did a 180 on. We went from rewarding content(no fresh content) to 1% drop rates and more crappy reskins. Look at all the good "new" gear that was released with the lasted round of VWNM its lazy crap.

You are so blinded by trying to make love to whoever you believe was in charge during Abyssea to realize that not everyone wants that. Who is it, by the way? Would be interesting to see who you believe is responsible for Abyssea.

Let me illustrate something:

During that one year ish period of time that Tanaka was focused on making FFXIV successful (he failed btw) they buffed everything, rearranged some jobs, added tons of awesome gear, the greatest WS's ever made (except a few), awesome spells, and crazy awesome content-specific buffs (Atma / Abyssite).

Look at the things he's listing. Every single thing he's listed was stuff people complained about in truckloads. But you either weren't playing back then (9 months ago, when the forums were launched and just about every thread was complaining about Abyssea) or you selectively chose to forget the criticism. It didn't go anywhere, just go into the General Discussion forum and go to the last few pages and you'll see people complain about exactly the things he mentions here:

• Buffs too powerful, makes content too easy
• Gear that was too powerful, made much of old items and even entire events obsolete
• Jobs changed and were made obsolete or didn't perform well enough
• "Awesome spells" (as saevel so casually called them) that didn't work properly or underperformed (Impact, Addle, Cure VI, etc.)
• "crazy awesome content-specific buffs" that everyone complained about because they were ridiculously overpowered and made any kind of skill requirement completely obsolete as long as you had a WHM with MM
• Better reward ratio, that made people quit after a few months because they had nothing else to do

Along with several other complaints (proc system, job selection severely reduced, generic content, lack of story/lore, etc.), those were just some examples of what people were complaining about en masse that people now seem to admire and praise. Which leads me to the assumption that most people who complained back then have either quit already, or are content enough not to complain on here anymore. Either way, if you don't wanna recognize that these things are ambiguous and only you're opinion, you're either delusional or too arrogant to see that opinions other than your own are valid. And the only defense you seem to know is "you're too busy making love to SE to see it", which just indicates that you're out of actual arguments (although, ironically, it wouldn't even invalidate my arguments in any way).

[Ravenmore]

Content should not last 7 years that is just retarded game design. New content should only last one year for the avg player. Also far more quit in 2009 when there were all these old events few people were doing. The old waty was mjust as bad and falls right on SE laps for leaving it the best in the game for far to long. Far more would had quit if kitty pants were the best thing you could get and they had to keep spaming sky a event that was so freaking boring after killing the same mobs for 6 years for the same 2 good drops.