[dev1047] Thoughts/Feedback on "Legion"

[saevel]

Never said you insulted me, just made assumptions about my knowledge base (which you are doing again now) and accused me in a condescending tone of not reading stuff but hitting Reply after three sentences, in effect having the attention span of Joe Average Forum Poster. Also never mentioned one word about Wiki, or that I've only read "a single wiki article", so at this point you might be confusing me with someone else (at best) or making more random assumptions (at worst). Notwithstanding all of this, you do make some good points about video game addiction, which at this point we should probably leave to the wayside for fear of derailing this thread further.

I am treating you with the measure that you've demonstrated. Firstly with your statement that making gear buy-able with points would in effect destroy the event. The rationale being that if gear was obtainable within a reasonable amount of time (point buyable is this) that it wouldn't last long enough and the developers would be required to work more. No matter how you twist your words, you were advocating a game company artificially extend the life of content via controlling with variable scheduled rewards, aka a skinners box. I told you this point blank and then gave you details and examples on exactly how that was a bad idea. You got your panties in a bunch and proceeded to attempt to cow me by goggling the details of what I posted and obtaining a cursory knowledge. Unfortunately for you I actually do know what I'm talking about as it was a small hobby of mine many years back. The remaining posts were you painting yourself into a corner while attempting to maintain dignity.

Your original argument that events based around variable scheduled rewards are a good thing because they artificially extend the life of content has been proven invalid. Some random reward systems are expected, even encouraged, but game designers using that as the primary means to attract and maintain participation constitutes an abuse of the irrational human reward system. Game content should have a high shelf life because it is enjoyable, not because it requires 200+ events per item to acquire your reward. The "fun" of the event has long worn off and it's been reduced to a grind fest, that's bad by the way.

I am in no way being condescending. If instead of trying to incite a war about who can act the wittiest, you put forth studies or valid arguments to counter those points I made I would of treated you like an intellectual.

[saevel]

It's been said the items the NMs drop inside will not be available from whatever vendor handles Legion points. As is, there are 3 equipment sets in the DATs that currently aren't in the live game, of which some believe they're going to be buyable with the Legion points.



Not very impressive, I think, especially since you'll likely need to partake in a number of successful Legions to get a single piece. I'm rather underwhelmed by the mage set, personally.

Ohh god not more "every mage" gear that ends up being absolute sh!t. You can already beat every piece of "every mage" gear with either Emp armor or AH acquirable gear.

It's absolute trash.

[Greatguardian]

There are people who have a whole alliance of accounts. They could happily enter and dual box a melee and a mage while their other 14 accounts sit out of the way accruing points for every run. If the items obtainable with points are saleable, they're £££$$$ in, or can just buy all items at once and trade them all to main char, since all 18 chars will accrue points at exactly the same rate.

Who gives a shit. If they're paying for 18 accounts, and setting up rigs capable of running them all at once, let them do whatever they want. It's their own problem if they're insistent on spending that much money on a game.

And good luck duo'ing these NMs with one mage and one melee.

[Eurell]

I am in no way being condescending. If instead of trying to incite a war about who can act the wittiest, you put forth studies or valid arguments to counter those points I made I would of treated you like an intellectual.

Just reading this thread now, and not choosing sides or anything lol, but just to clarify... this isn't condescending?

[Babekeke]

And good luck duo'ing these NMs with one mage and one melee.

People already managed it on the test server, killing 1-2 mobs before time out.

[FrankReynolds]

There are people who have a whole alliance of accounts. They could happily enter and dual box a melee and a mage while their other 14 accounts sit out of the way accruing points for every run. If the items obtainable with points are saleable, they're £££$$$ in, or can just buy all items at once and trade them all to main char, since all 18 chars will accrue points at exactly the same rate.

They would all accrue points, but they wouldn't accrue many. How many NMs can you really kill in 30 minutes, with only 2 people fighting?

EDIT: Just to clarify. If 2 people can kill 1-2, then 18 people can kill what? 15-20? So instead of getting points for 20 kills on one character, the guy gets points for @30 kills spread across 18 characters... I see very little benefit to doing it that way. That's really not much of an exploit.

[Greatguardian]

People already managed it on the test server, killing 1-2 mobs before time out.

Oh no, spending 360k to kill a whole two NMs.

What ever shall we do.

[Luvbunny]

Instead of having one person spend the 360k gil on one KI to be shared by many - it would be better to make us pay individually for 20-30k each time. This looks like it's going to be a closed event - instead of the open nature of VW and Walk of Echoes. Here is hoping that the gears will be a side grade alternative to the other gears from VW, WoE and Abyssea so that this will become optional. Seems like once you reach level 99, all you do is collecting gears in this game

[Mahoro]

I am treating you with the measure that you've demonstrated. Firstly with your statement that making gear buy-able with points would in effect destroy the event. The rationale being that if gear was obtainable within a reasonable amount of time (point buyable is this) that it wouldn't last long enough and the developers would be required to work more. No matter how you twist your words, you were advocating a game company artificially extend the life of content via controlling with variable scheduled rewards, aka a skinners box. I told you this point blank and then gave you details and examples on exactly how that was a bad idea. You got your panties in a bunch and proceeded to attempt to cow me by goggling the details of what I posted and obtaining a cursory knowledge. Unfortunately for you I actually do know what I'm talking about as it was a small hobby of mine many years back. The remaining posts were you painting yourself into a corner while attempting to maintain dignity.

No, my remaining posts were advocating an Abyssea-type drop rate, which you expressly said was a non-Skinner system. I maintain my view that making an ENTIRE event's gear purchasable with points would in effect destroy the event. Making ALL of Abyssea's +2 trinkets/gear purchasable by points would drastically decrease the event's shelf life. This has been borne out by Fell Cleave cruor parties, has it not? People are making Cruor hand over fist. Imagine if they could purchase +2 trinkets for every job with this Cruor. Bam, dead event walking. People already mostly look the same in their +2 armor. Do you want Joe Schmoe and his 17-WHM mule cruor strikeforce to trade in their ill-gotten gains for instant +2? Do you want RMT to purchase every piece of gear available in Limbus through ABC's without beating Ultima/Omega? Note this argument was in my original post, which you didn't even respond to, so I'm not sure where you get justification for stating that I haven't put forth valid arguments.

What you essentially did was take my original post and extrapolate it to its extreme as a springboard for your Skinner soapbox, never allowing for a middle ground where an event can take on certain facets of an operative conditioning chamber (Abyssea) while not turning into an egregious variable reward system (Voidwatch). Ironically, making ALL gear in an event purchasable by points could potentially lead to a grindfest in and of itself, and require 200+ events per item to acquire some of the best rewards.

In any event, as the below post indicates, we have overstayed our welcome as I feared. Seems we BOTH agree Voidwatch drop rates are egregious, so I'm going to leave it at that and stop engaging with you on these issues.

[Babekeke]

Will you two (Saevel and Mahoro) please get a room?