To the devs!

[ManaKing]

LOL what? RDM is hardly trash, is it in a bad spot, sure but that doesn't make it trash, it is still a decent support job, the only issue is that some jobs can replace it for the most part by using RDM's abilities in subjob form. This is only compounded by the fact enfeebling magic is more or less non existant.

It hardly make the job trash though, it is still a solid choice to bring as a secondary healer, or nuker or even as a melee, is it first choice no, but it shouldn't be first choice in those things.

But considering you have no idea how the job functions with others (your lack of understanding how our buffs and debuffs stack with other jobs) or how to gear for it (assumed because you claim haste is a wasted slot), I think maybe you are just a trash player, of course if you don't know how to play the job it will be trash.

Here is an idea, go level SAM, anyone with half a brain can gear and play that job. Or go and read up on how to play RDM, what it provides, and how it affects the group. Then read up on how to gear the job for those specific instances.

A job that can drop a 1.5K nuke, then gear swap into a 600+ heal, then gear swap into a 2K+ WS, while at the same time increasing party damage, reducing party damage, increasing healing potential. Is hardly a trash job, a little lost for direction, but a long shot from trash. It is still one of the best jobs in the game, even if it sees limited invites (this is due to enfeebling being nearly useless, and the fact the only buff RDM main offers post subjob is refresh II).

Well shit. I'll bite. You want to start personal attacks, we can go that way. Misinterpret my posts all you want. I still play this jobs and know what it is good for. NOT GETTING PARTY INVITES TO CURRENT EVENTS. You can get invited, but no one looks for a RDM because they aren't the best at anything. I made my point in bold just in case you are too stupid to realize what RDM needs fixed. I won't even waste your time on giving you a full wall of text to work though. If you missed the bold then don't even bother to post because that is what this is all about.

[Mageoholic]

Hey I am just pointing out the fallacy in your logic, and supporting it with evidence of your misunderstanding. If you think the job is trash that is your opinion and you are titled to it.

As for the bold.

Then your server is shit, or you have a bad reputation as a RDM. If I flag up on RDM I will get an invite, because RDM still provides a lot of functionality, the issue is not really with the job, the issue is with the limitations imposed on it (enfeebling restrictions, buff restrictions) and the fact that some jobs can provide the same services as RDM + their own services. Not meaning those jobs are better at doing it then RDM, but that they can get a lot of the tricks a RDM gets without actually being RDM.

For example, BRD/RDM, it is not as good as RDM overall, it is tied to RDM, RDM has free sub job opportunity, BRD could sub WHM but losses convert and this MP. RDM can /WHM and keep all of its tools.

The issue is that BRD can get all of RDM's sub 50 buffs and abilities, where as RDM can get 25% of a BRD's capability as /BRD (half skill + 1 song only).

That is the issue with RDM. It still gets invited to a lot of content, maybe not abyssea but abyssea is a joke anyway, level BLM and gear your RDM (thats how I did it). Now my RDM is ready for VW, Dynamis, Nyzul, Salvage, Einherjahr all things that RDM sees invites to, on a regular basis.

[tyrantsyn]

RDM as a job function well, but it's potential isn't being met. The job feel's like a selfish child who refuse's to learn anything that'll help other's. And it's strongest skill is mired in end game utility. Only given us 1 or maybe 2 option on added something to the fight with it feeling only mildly useful. Melee, which is something were suppose to have a hand in "if even a little" has always been a sore spot. And yet it's one of the largest thread's on the RDM forums.

Mage you seem to think of RDM a little like me, it works but it's not reaching it'd potential.

Mana you seem genuinely dis~ hearten by that lack of attention RDM has gotten. And I'm sure most of us would agree with you. Including myself.

It's a shame you 2 can't find any common ground. You guy's both seem to know what your talking about from your own experience's.

[Mageoholic]

Mage you seem to think of RDM a little like me, it works but it's not reaching it'd potential.

I think it has for the most part pretty good balance in its potential, it is a decent healer a decent nuker a decent melee, it is a good enfeebler and a good buffer. The issue I have with RDM is the same one that I had with healing magic in general. It may not even just be an issue with RDM, really WHM and BLM are also victims of current game limitations.

The fact the job as a support job allows a job (lets say BRD) to buff and debuff to the same potential as a RDM (or even WHM, BLM) is disturbing. It is wrong, and it should be addressed (the same way that Cure spells are all kinds of borked comparing main to sub ability).

SE is addressing that concern by adjusting healing caps based on healing magic skill (which allows for disparity between main and sub job Curing spells).

This should be carried over to Enfeebling, Enhancing, and Elemental skills as well. Why can a BRD sub RDM or WHM, cast a 600 cure 4, cast a 15% haste, and with all the MACC out there land slow/para/dispel/blind. (Ive been able to land slow and para more often the not /RDM as BRD.) It is wrong. A subjob should allow the main job to cast its spells at half power, just like what happens with BRD when you sub it. Except BRD songs only function at like 25% skill as a sub job, we only have 50% of the singing skill when it is a sub job, since we can not use an instrument.

This isn't just a RDM issue, it affects all jobs with native enfeebling, enhancing skill (i include elemental because if you are going to do it to one set of magic skills you may as well do it to them all.)

BRD NIN BLU SMN all of their spells potency, and MACC are heavily restricted as sub jobs, WHM RDM (somewhat BLM) spells are more or less going off at par when set as subjobs. This isn't right.

It's a shame you 2 can't find any common ground. You guy's both seem to know what your talking about from your own experience's.

I know you are trying to be nice, but I disagree, this is someone who doesn't know how the jobs spells work, and how those spells work with other jobs, and claims the job is trash because their own misunderstanding yet has an opinion on everything as if they do. Nothing against the guy/girl but he/she should go read up on RDM and how it works, then come back and offer constructive feed back. Saying the job is trash waaah waaah waaah, makes it hard to discuss anything.

Especially when they throw their hands over their ears (eyes technically I guess) and scream but this, but that, but this, but that. Sorry but I provided a list of our spells that provide buffs akin to many jobs that stack with those jobs, it got picked apart with more misinformation. Hard to be civil with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, yet tries to act like they do.

[ManaKing]

I understand he wants nice things for RDM, but he is delusional about how being a support mage is going to do dick for RDM. Enfeebling doesn't really work because of how mobs are being designed, enhancing for RDM is a joke, and this guy thinks that we are magically going to have a spot because he says so. He thinks I'm the one in denial, but he clearly isn't understanding the point and he feels the need to personally defend himself because he turned this into a pissing contest. Welcome to the RDM forums. People mean to do well and go primal on each other. I'm not even mad at him, but I'm already tired of walls of text that don't apply to how current NMs are being designed or how the game is being played. I'm not saying I'm being the nicest person at this point but I really don't need him making ASSumptions about what I post after being here for a week and not bothering to read any of the older threads. I really shouldn't have to cater to him because he really isn't any more or less important than any other person on these forums, myself included, and all he posts is fluff. I just think it is funny that he is schooling me on RDM when he doesn't even understand where the job is at right now and the actual issues that it has.

The bottom line is you can think RDM isn't living up to it's potential and that is fine. I know it doesn't have a place in an actual Alliance that could be better filled with another job because everything it used to support is outdated. Next update, double Alliances for Legion. Maybe the game format will better suit RDM by making it into some kind of refresh-btich because they won't add atmas or atmacite, but they seem to really like those. OR they could just keep making RDM not particularly significant except for healing and DPS, because that is what RDM is right now. Do you have an Almace, do you have a decent nuking set, do you have good Cure Potency? If the answer is no, then you are useless because all of your other skills are useless...except Dia 3, because that actually does something and does stack in a way that makes a difference. Should this be how it is? NO. BUT it is how it is currently.

[Mageoholic]

I understand he wants nice things for RDM, but he is delusional about how being a support mage is going to do dick for RDM. Enfeebling doesn't really work because of how mobs are being designed, enhancing for RDM is a joke, and this guy thinks that we are magically going to have a spot because he says so.

wait RDM is trash because enfeebling does dick and enhancing is a joke? I wonder who created the thread that asks SE to address these 2 very issues. Maybe the guy who thinks we will magically get a spot if these things are fixed. 2 very issues that you claim is keeping RDM from group play. The same 2 issues I have said were a problem a while ago along with healing magic which they are adjusting (based on my suggestion maybe, they did post that update notice after I suggested lifting caps and using skill to increase the teirs, if thats how it is done is anyones guess).

I don't know why you are arguing with what I am saying, considering it is addressing the same issues that you claim are the root of the problem.

Looks like you are agreeing with me? Sure sounds like it.

COMPROMISE!.

[ManaKing]

Still doesn't mean we are going to get any unique function that can't be easily done by any other jobs. Enfeebling itself as a magic school has degraded because NMs no longer have a long TP/Auto attack phase like they used to. Slow, Blind, and Paralyze have all started to fall by the wayside. Just making Enfeebles stick or even make them have decent potency doesn't stop most NMs from TPing when they feel like it and hitting any member of your alliance because their accuracy is/and always will be capped. It's a multitude of problems that are wrong with Enfeebling, not just 1 or 2. If they want to adjust Enfeebling to actually do something in the future, then sure, we can swing some kind of debuffer job. But if we just get back what we used to have, no future in that. It's already outdated and that's the biggest issue. We haven't had real work done on our job but NMs have had plenty of work done on them, so we don't fit the current game model.

You want to play a RDM like it is 'supposed' to be played, go to dynamis. They still make sense there. But stacked up to aby NMs or VW NMs, RDMs are IMHO Trash.

Enhancing is a lesser problem that could be fixed by doing really basic non-inventive buffs. Update some formulas. Change the select-able targets for gain spells and temper and let us appreciate the overly lack luster set bonus that is our AF3.

We aren't in contention about how easy buffing would be to fix, but I really am very serious about what a CF Enfeebling would be to actually give us a fair shake at this game again. I started playing RDM at NA release because it offered debuffs and enspells. While the state of Enspells is pretty sorry as well, it's nothing compared to how wrong Enfeebling is currently.

Enfeebling is our ONLY A rank skill. It is what we should be specialized in and sought out for. It takes 2 RDMs to heal as well as a WHM. It takes 2 RDM to nuke as well as a BLM. It used to take a WHM and a BLM to cover the enfeebling ground as a RDM, but I hope we all know that /RDM on either of those jobs will do the trick as well as a RDM themselves. We aren't disagreeing on how wrong that is, but you just have to understand how much SE would have to push RDM past the other jobs' ability to enfeeble to make it fair. We aren't just talking about fixing the old spells, I'm talking about getting a small library of new enfeebles to counter the BS that is getting created for us to fight against.

All this talk about Balance is getting really old because I still see a couple completely unBalanced jobs that are staring me in the face and all that seems to get attention is the jobs that are already well off or have already been buffed recently. RDM needs more than just work on Enfeebling, Enhancing, and 2nd hand healing adjustments, but we haven't even gotten those yet. This waiting game was old @ 90. I don't really know why SE even included a RDM forum here because they haven't even used this platform to disseminate information.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

the overly lack luster set bonus that is our AF3.

Wow!!! /sigh

[cidbahamut]

Just hang up your chapeau and go play a different job already. Jesus...

[tyrantsyn]

Enhancing is a lesser problem that could be fixed by doing really basic non-inventive buffs. Update some formulas. Change the select-able targets for gain spells and temper and let us appreciate the overly lack luster set bonus that is our AF3.
.

Yeah, I agree if the gain line spell's and Temper were single target spell's that would probably make a lot of the RDM community happy. Tho I wouldn't go so far as to call our emp +2 set bonus lack luster. I would like to see some more bonus gear added to it. Piece's that added to our enhancing magic and the bonus at the same time would be great.