To the devs!

[ManaKing]

Getting invited to groups should be our first priority as a job, and until RDM has something it can say it is clearly better than other jobs at, this won't happen. There is only one solution that won't cause people to freak out, and that is a support mage increase, and this is only true because all of our abilities stack with other support jobs.

Agreed, BUT you are still assuming they will make Enfeebling/Enhancing worth while to a party, much less make RDM actually proficient at using it. Because Enfeebling/Enhancing is in a poor state, RDM stuffers because that was part of their identity. Enfeebling/Enhancing not being equally worth a party spot as Nuking, Healing, DD, or Alternative Supports is the problem. Until the problem is fixed, the symptoms of RDM can't be resolved. If they aren't going to ever fix the problem, then I would rather RDM doesn't focus it's future updates on something that will do nothing to increase the value of RDMs.

I'm not against Enfeebling at all, but buffing has always been rather lack-luster in it's game design. Some of buffs were too good not to cycle around a party, but it really doesn't make for interesting game play VS just AOEing it and moving on to actually focusing on the MOB instead of your party's artificially created need for you to buff them individually. Unless the Single Target Buffs of RDM are going to be so much better than the AOE buffs of every other job, then you really aren't doing RDM any favors by intentionally hobbling it.

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand. SE will never make RDM a DD people would chose to have because it has nukes and heals as well, SE will never buff RDM nuking to the point it would be picked over a BLM or SCH because it can melee and heal, and SE will never buff RDM healing to the point of WHM because it can melee and nuke (semantic arguments aside).

BLU is looking at you like you don't realize it is in the game and I'll spare you the talk about how good Hammers and Club WSs are because I'm tired of them as well. It would be one thing if BLU didn't heal better than RDM, but that it does that and Buffs at the same time that makes everything very one sides for me. I'm not interested in hearing what RDM isn't allowed to be because BLU is in the game and it outshines us HARD. Am I sad that I don't have to reset my procs every time I do VW and that my job is getting shit all over by the proc system? NO. But if the next set of content doesn't result in ANOTHER proc system, BLU VS RDM is not going to be a contest. They will step all over us in every category. AND the problem isn't BLU, it's RDM.

Do we need to be another BLU? No. But we don't need to be another BRD either. I don't really care which way it goes so long is it is implemented well. Do I prefer melee? You bet my Almace I do, but I like the mage aspect of my job just as much as the melee, that's why I'm a RDM. I have no interest in compromising either side nor excluding either unless I'm going to get something amazing out of it. So long as RDM becomes a legitimate force to be reckoned with, I would be satisfied. I'm very tired of these half-assed buffs that make me believe devs don't even consider RDM a real job when they plan new content.

[tyrantsyn]

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand. SE will never make RDM a DD people would chose to have because it has nukes and heals as well, SE will never buff RDM nuking to the point it would be picked over a BLM or SCH because it can melee and heal, and SE will never buff RDM healing to the point of WHM because it can melee and nuke (semantic arguments aside).

BLU is looking at you like you don't realize it is in the game

Mana.... come on, take a minute, look at what you wrote and what Mage wrote. He was only referring to RDM. At no point in what you quoted from him did he make reference to any other job. He was talking just about RDM. "IF" you are looking for SE to make RDM more like BLU than your going to be out of luck.

If RDM is going to succeed at anything, it's going to have to play into it's own strength's. Which is Enfeebling and Enhancing. We need more end game utility out of enfeeble's and a list of single target enhancing magic spell's that benefit from our high end skill and our duration buff. This will give us the end game utility as a job that would be worth wild.

Almost all of us would love to see more melee added to the job. But as it sit's now were just have to rely on sub's and gear. If were lucky SE might throw something our way in the form of a spell to help increase it. If that happen tho, it needs to be a target~able spell so that we can share it with other's. We don't need another Temper, where we have this awesome thing and for some odd reason as a job, we have no intention of sharing it. Spell's like that are good but there not great.

[Mageoholic]

Or just tack it on to Enhancing magic skill itself, that way any job that buffs with spells of that type can take advantage of increased duration. I am sure WHM's SCH's and PLD's would love to have increased buff durations too. (of course RDM would still be the king of that having highest native skill, and access to the largest amount of +skill gear.)

[Mageoholic]

@Mana King, please read what you reply too. "I agree but I agree completely" replies are getting old. Every time you reply you attempt to refute what I have said, by saying exactly what I said several times already (over several threads now). It just doesn't make any sense.

As for BLU their ability to buff is limited to a 10 minute JA, they are no better at buffing then a RDM is. Can they heal better, presently yes they can, but that is because SE paid no mind at all to the issues of healing magic until every job in the game was casting Cure 4 the same as every job in the game (at base value). BLU is not some magical awesome, its melee sucks, likely worse than a good RDM melee player, where it makes up for this is in spell damage, quick casting high damage spells. That's not even including the fact that they have limited MP, unless they sub RDM which limits their offensive output via melee even more. Furthermore, BLU is only a better healer or nuker then RDM if they have the spells set for that, if they do not they are married to a 1 minute reset timer that allows them contribute practically nothing to the group for a whole 60's seconds.

A RDM, well they can apply their decent melee, decent nuking, decent healing with an instant gear swap/spell macro. Whenever they want, married to nothing but what gear and spells they have. Until SE adjust Enfeebling and Enhancing there is no place for RDM in a group, because frankly it just doesn't offer anything other jobs do better, even if it is able to adequately perform several roles at the same time. It is the only direction for RDM improvement that will have the desired effect of making RDM useful. The job will never be brought as a melee DD, a nuking DD, or a healer over the other jobs in this game, and sadly there is no room for a hybrid amongst dedicated jobs. (unless the hybrid is actually useful to the group by making those dedicated jobs better.)

[ManaKing]

A RDM, well they can apply their decent melee, decent nuking, decent healing with an instant gear swap/spell macro. Whenever they want, married to nothing but what gear and spells they have. Until SE adjust Enfeebling and Enhancing there is no place for RDM in a group, because frankly it just doesn't offer anything other jobs do better, even if it is able to adequately perform several roles at the same time. It is the only direction for RDM improvement that will have the desired effect of making RDM useful. The job will never be brought as a melee DD, a nuking DD, or a healer over the other jobs in this game, and sadly there is no room for a hybrid amongst dedicated jobs. (unless the hybrid is actually useful to the group by making those dedicated jobs better.)

There you go. You finally did it. You made a persuasive paragraph that didn't ramble on and addressed the issues being talked about. You got a thumbs up and I do actually agree with this statement because it rings true and puts the burden on SE to actually fix their shit instead of make RDM continue to try to fit into a game it can't compete in. Thank you.

So what are you going to say if they keep messing up enfeebling/enhancing? You can counter that as a what if on a maybe, if you want.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You can't say blu melee sucks when it has same weapon better gear traits and more freedom of sub than Rdm does for meleeing. It's just stuck with the same limitations as any other job that usually uses 1h weapons, and typically better than any other mage.

[Mageoholic]

BLU is just as tied to /NIN as RDM is. Its gearing options are more or less the same, it has essentially the same ACC and ATK, and weaponskills for the most part. While enspells do not work on weaponskills they are very good sources of additional damage. In a straight melee race RDM will trump BLU in terms of damage applied via melee. (although this gap has closed quite a bit since 75 when BLU couldn't cap gear haste, and had no access to (realistic) multi-hit weapons to off hand)

SE has a hard on for hybrid tax, RDM's tax is that because it has no limitation factor on spells and abilities available to it, it is inherently weaker. Unlike SCH BLU and even DNC who can all be solid DD's(nukes/melee combination of both), Healers, but more or less lock themselves into one role or the other, (DNC burns TP to heal, SCH married to Arts, and BLU limited in spells it can set) A RDM can cast its spells whenever, wherever.

As my good buddy Tanaka would say: BALANCE!!!

Thus the only way RDM will ever be a strong (comparable full time) DD, Nuker, Healer is if SE restricted other aspects of the job when we are performing a specific action. Personally I have no issue with shutting down my melee side to be a better caster, and vice versa. But that still doesn't solve the issue with RDM not being invited at all. If you want a DD you get a DD, a Healer a Healer, a Nuker a Nuker.

To be a broken record, the only realistic place for a RDM to be buffed (aka fixed) to get a party spot is Support Mage, meaning enfeebling and enhancing skills and spells need to be fixed, to set RDM apart from the rest of the buffer/debuffer mages. Binary casting is very 2004, especially with 3-4 jobs all being relatively the same, there needs to be some way to be distinctive. WHM has healing and divinemagic, BLM has Elemental and Dark magic, RDM should get support magics, enfeebling and enhancing.

[Economizer]

BLU is just as tied to /NIN as RDM is.

Blue Mage can get Dual Wield III natively (although this is tied to setting certain spells), thus Blue Mage has slightly better options in terms of subs.

[saevel]

Blue Mage can get Dual Wield III natively (although this is tied to setting certain spells), thus Blue Mage has slightly better options in terms of subs.

This pretty much proves he doesn't know what he's talking about. As of 99 no BLU should be /NIN, Occulation is 9 shadows and six spells make DWIII. It's /WAR for pure offense, /WHM or /RDM for support.

Also RDM will NEVER be a party buffing job again. SE kinda went out of their way to make sure about that. When I asked them they told us point blank that WHM was for party buffing and RDM was for self buffing. Thus anyone thinking to make RDM into the old "haste / refresh / xxx / cure b1tch" is nosing down the wrong ally.

[Economizer]

This pretty much proves he doesn't know what he's talking about. As of 99 no BLU should be /NIN, Occulation is 9 shadows and six spells make DWIII. It's /WAR for pure offense, /WHM or /RDM for support.

Well, I dunno about never subbing NIN or DNC ever considering other traits you can get from setting spells differently, but it certainly opens up far more options. Blue Mages in the playerbase would be wise to try them out and see what fits their play-style best. Blue Mage is far and away one of the most versatile jobs currently, and I could see the game continuing even if SE went crazy one day and restricted every job to 49 or lower except BLU.

Personally, I've been trying to convince a BLU friend to consider subbing RDM on occasion for solo/duo events rather then just NIN all the time, but regardless, some situations will call for subbing NIN or even DNC (although /DNC is more of a result of Dynamis procs being brokenly imbalanced). I imagine RDM would be considered even more useful if Blue Magic "Magic" spells were more powerful relative to "Physical" spells (although my perception here might be from a lack of 100% understanding of the job), or perhaps if Red Mage also had "Magic Accuracy" as a job trait and some of the tiers were sub usable.