To the devs!

[Neisan_Quetz]

And that vision line is still bullshit.

[Mageoholic]

and of course you have proof of SE stating it was mistranslated then?

It was invited because it had better MP control then WHM, and that was it. WHM now does it good enough so RDM no longer is welcome.

You never did endgame very much I take it. RDM was brought to cast Slow/Para/Refresh/Haste and crowd control (depending on the event), and fill in holes as needed which was generally healing or nuking, but melee was on that was also done (at least by me).

This is what a RDM did. Buffed Debuffed and filled holes in the group. It was invited because its enfeebles were needed and it was the best job for buffing. Now its enfeebles are not useful, and its buffs (except refresh II) are subbable.

Allowing RDM to cast all of their buffs on allies and enfeebles being useful is the only way this job will ever have relevance. Other wise you just bring BRD/RDM to do all the buffing, and WHM to stick slow/para.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

and of course you have proof of SE stating it was mistranslated then?




You never did endgame very much I take it. RDM was brought to cast Slow/Para/Refresh/Haste and crowd control (depending on the event), and fill in holes as needed which was generally healing or nuking, but melee was on that was also done (at least by me).

This is what a RDM did. Buffed Debuffed and filled holes in the group. It was invited because its enfeebles were needed and it was the best job for buffing. Now its enfeebles are not useful, and its buffs (except refresh II) are subbable.

Allowing RDM to cast all of their buffs on allies and enfeebles being useful is the only way this job will ever have relevance. Other wise you just bring BRD/RDM to do all the buffing, and WHM to stick slow/para.

Yes, from someone that actually speaks Japanese.

Yes, enough to basically make RDM Pink-Mage, and just a poor mans WHM.

[ManaKing]

It's perfectly fine to point out that enfeebling is what we are supposed to be good at, but SE already said RDM is a self enhancer (gain spells + Temper). Furthermore, the job manifesto came out a while back and you can see the amazing work they have put in to make RDM anything like a demigod or an enfeebling specialist. Break and Gravity 2? GTFO of here. They were useless on arrival. What else are we getting? Looks like a big fat nothing.

The reason there are a bunch of crabby, pissy RDMs that fight with each other on this forum is that we have been looking forward to progress for the last year and we have received absolutely nothing that fixes our extremely lengthy list of on-going problems. We may get a healing adjustment when the dev team gets around to fixing healing for all jobs. We may get enfeebling adjustments when they do them for the other mage jobs. But open your eyes. They aren't going to do a RDM update until the very last minute. It will be an update that would have been valid years ago, but when that they finally get around to doing it, it will be too little too late and we will already be outdated again. Just look at their track record, we get fixes when it affects other jobs.

[Mageoholic]

Yes, enough to basically make RDM Pink-Mage, and just a poor mans WHM.

RDM was never as good as WHM. I don't know so many think it was.

actually I do know why, it is because the majority of people didn't actually do endgame, they sat in EXP all day the one place where RDM was better than WHM, at least until SCH came out.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

RDM was never as good as WHM. I don't know so many think it was.

actually I do know why, it is because the majority of people didn't actually do endgame, they sat in EXP all day the one place where RDM was better than WHM, at least until SCH came out.

Nope, they didn't. You're still stuck in your PLD was useful in endgame stage. /sigh

Take note: It was a rubbish WHM, but that was irrelevant. RDM could heal well enough and control it's MP, WHM could not. As such WHM was near useless without a MP enhancer and an even worse enfeebler so. 1 space is better than 3 spaces for an enhancer, enfeebler and healer.

Endgame was done one way: The smallest amount of support and more DD's you could get away with the better.

[Mageoholic]

That is complete and utter crap. If anyone is having delusions of Grandeur it is you. WHM's had just fine MP management, at least the good ones. WHM had great MP management mostly because at the time Regen was very potent. Unlike todays game they were the primary healing spells cast.

As for PLD not being useful, are you crazy? it was the most practical tank on the majority of mobs, especially after the updates it got to put it above NIN. In both cases it wasn't about healing magic it was about uptime of shadows (haste slow and paralyze) and statically regenerating the players health (regens) allowing the PLD to do big heals on itself for additional CE.

(this is why RDM was the best overall tank until it was nerfed.)

WHM was and always has been the best endagame healer. RDM was brought to supply haste/refresh/slow/paralyze/dia. That is it. Anything a RDM did after that was determined by the RDM's opinion on what the group needed most. Endgame always had WHM's because they were the best healers (Cure V and Regens).

And endgame was done many ways, from the full group (tank party/dd party/mage party) to the zerg (DRK with Kraken/BRD/BRD/COR/RDM/WHM) to mana burn (BLM BRD COR RDM)

This is what endgame consisted of, and the only case that didn't include WHM as the healer was Manaburn mostly because players would log hate.

As I said clearly you have not done much endgame, WHM was the king of healing and every endgame group had one. With the exception of nyzul (until /SCH) which was basically a roaming exp party except on boss floors, that contained bosses that were susceptible to enfeebles allowing a RDM to be able to heal them successfully.

Your memory is either failing, or you are talking out your ass. RDM was never a replacement for a WHM in serious endgame.

[Seriha]

Funny, I seem to recall being stuck healing 4-5 DD parties in Dynamis. The alternatives were playing Refresh monkey to BLMs (who were better at the crowd control game with 2 sleepgas) or tossing out refreshes to the PLD tanks while keeping an eye on our puller. This didn't differ much when fighting kings or doing Einherjar when it eventually came out. Unless there's some super secret serious endgame out there that I didn't know about.

Personally, I have no doubts WHM was the better healer, especially when it came to recovering from AoEs. That didn't stop people from having tunnel vision and thinking a job who does one thing elsewhere (like maintain a merit party) can do the same everywhere else. In some respects, WHM was just overkill for certain events.

Enfeebling then and now isn't a particularly involving aspect to deter people from making us healers, either. With most encounters being 1 vs Many, it's land what we can then most likely do the pink mage bit in between reapplications. It's partly why I've wanted to see a lot of our debuffs get the Step treatment and have levels applied to their potency. Land a near 40% Slow II? That's it until it wears. But what if you or other people can cast other slows on top, adding x% per land in a meaningful number with a bit more duration? Maybe then we'd be getting closer to enfeebling being a full-time gig, but we arguably need more enfeebles than what we have now, and not just tier-ups.

[Mageoholic]

and what else were you expected to do in dynamis while you were healing. Oh yes thats right sleeping mobs, silencing pets, silencing mobs, slowing mobs, paralyzing mobs, diaing mobs, and giving haste and/or refresh out. Then you healed, because if dynamis was being done right the only ones taking damage were the tanks. Which your WHM's were taking care of.

WHM's have always been the primary healers
BLM's have always been the primary nukers
WAR's have always been the primary melee
RDM had always been the primary support mage.

In every event it was enfeeble and buff first. That was the job, and why it was invited. What came after was what was deemed important, and that secondary task covered healing, nuking and melee.

I know you love hand outs, but RDM doesn't need secondary skills changed, it needs its main skills back. That is the only reason RDM was ever useful in endgame, if RDM couldn't bring better enfeebles and stackable buffs it wouldn't have had a spot, and that is the fucking cold hard truth.

Support first, everything else second, that is the job, and SE is restricting our support abilities heavily, for no apparent reason.

Which brings us back to the OP.

What is the deal SE?, What are your plans with RDM? Are we going to be a Support Mage? or are we destined to be mediocre in everything and wander RoZ/CoP till the end of time soloing irrelevant content?

[ManaKing]

With the jobs WHM, BLM, BRD, and COR in the game, not to mention SCH, I really don't see how you can believe that RDM can be anything like you are describing. I laugh at your vision of RDM having been the 'primary support mage' because that has no future.

With amount that SE tip toes around each of those job's identity/boundaries, I really don't see how you believe that RDM will subsist, much less flourish in the current environment. You're really being naive if you think that SE will fix enfeebling to a point that RDM will become viable in a party again. The reason we are all uppity about getting additional buffs, is because that is what it would take for us to be anything in a party, much less something as ridiculous as the 'primary support mage'. So because we have to use MP and can easily get eclipsed by jobs that don't have to even worry about MP, we are supposed to be able to feel good about a title as unfulfilled as 'primary support mage'?

What about a support that actually stacks up against the other supports in the game? That's what I would be shooting for, not retainer of the garbage heap or guy that gets invited when they are just trying to fill spots. I understand you are trying to do good for the job, but your aim is incredibly low and will result in more mediocrity if it is allowed to persist. Please broaden your scope and realize the pile of shit you are already forced to stand in while all the other jobs are designed to actually be themselves and are rewarded for it.