Boost spells + enhancing gear

[raps1355]

Considering how powerful Barspells are I don't expect to be able to cast a second element short of some rare gear piece that allows it (same with a supposed Barall spell). Perhaps if SE ever updates the Evoker's Ring and the Black Belt we'll see job specific super gear much like those two pieces (Such as SCH getting something that gives Stratagems Stored +1 and Conserve Stratagem, or Puppetmaster getting a special attachment/frame that aside from other functions, has the Automaton cast Raise on the master if they die). Basically, I think it is a possibility if we see more super powerful gear someday, but I don't think it will ever be a class feature.

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All in all, I don't see a 500 Enhancing Magic cap as an issue at all, but certain spells should be brought up to the level of spells that cap at that number, be it with allowing them to scale, increasing durations, or just raising the level they cap at.

For other spells I think they would be more appropriate to discuss in other topics.

They can be powerful but im sure you will agree with the new VW NM's they arent that great anymore which is why they need to allow us access to higher skill or as you suggest strong job specific equipment.

[Ophannus]

Will we be getting new job abilities 96-99 for the jobs that don't cast magic or get useful traits? Mages got new spells and many melee jobs got enhanced traits such as Dual Wield III for NIN and a new tier of Shield Mastery for PLD. But jobs like DRG it's speculated that the only trait we got 96-99 was enhanced tier of Critical Defense Bonus (because a tier of Crit Defense Bonus is hard to test and is akin to nothing for DRG compared to maybe an extra tier of Conserve TP or Attack Bonus it feels like the only thing new we got 86-99 was Stardiver and higher acc/att from polearm skill(which every job got)

We were expecting some new job abilities, maybe a new Jump or Attack Boost job ability but you told us DRG has reached the limit on Job Abilities(Yet DRG only has 11, SAM and THF have 13)

[Seriha]

First off, I suppose it'd be simplest to list all spells affected by Enhancing Magic. From there, we can pick apart their effects and possible updates.

12 Barelement spells. (6 types, WHM AoE and RDM single-target)
16 Barstatus spells. (8 types, WHM AoE and RDM single-target)
10 Protect spells. (5 types, WHM AoE and WHM/RDM/SCH/PLD single-target)
10 Shell spells. (5 types, WHM AoE and WHM/RDM/SCH/PLD single-target)
5 Regen spells.
2 Refresh spells.
Adloquium. (TP Regen)
8 Storm spells.
4 Spikes Spells.
2 Phalanx Spells.
Stoneskin.
Aquaveil.
Blink.
12 Enspells.
Auspice.
Temper.
Animus Augeo and Minuo.
14 Stat boosting spells. (7 types, WHM AoE and RDM single-target)

Universally, I would like to see the durations of all Enhancing Magic to be 5 minutes before including things like Perpetuance, Composure + Empyrean+2, and standard equipment boosts. If this includes an adjustment of MP costs, like 60% higher, okay. However, it should be noted the the Bar-lines have a default duration that increases after a certain level of skill. This could also be a consideration, but best if buffs maintain a uniform duration instead of Haste ending in 5 minutes, Refresh in 4 minutes, and so on.

Anyway, onto the spells...

12 Barelement spells. (6 types, WHM AoE and RDM single-target)
The main issue I've found with these is that the spell alone is rarely enough to be a detriment to a mob's elemental attacks. This lead to things like Fire Resist builds for Tiamat back in the day which, while workable for tank classes, weren't really practical due to performance hits and inventory limitations. It also suggests that the accuracy for various mob spells and abilities are set rather high if even a half-resist is a rarity from a Barspell alone.

While I wouldn't expect the resist rates of Barspells to be grossly improved, instead I would propose a uniform mitigation of any damage or effect from that element. So, if you're capable of hitting 150 resist, that could mean 15% damage knocked off or a status effect's duration cut by that much. Whether it comes before or after the 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 check is up to you. It should also stack on top of the -Magic Damage cap.

I would also like to see Barlight(ra) and Bardark(ra) added.

16 Barstatus spells. (8 types, WHM AoE and RDM single-target)
Many feel these spells are useless, in part due to the earlier issue of high land rates from monsters. While they can lead to shortened durations paired with a Barspell, nullification on challenging prey is rare. Like with elemental resists, I surmise we have hidden status resist stats these spells augment, which then go on to the 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 check. As with Barspells, all I can suggest is they also receive a percentage duration reduction based on your skill. So, again with the 150 number, paired with the Barspell, 30% total reduction could happen.

10 Protect spells. (5 types, WHM AoE and WHM/RDM/SCH/PLD single-target)
The Defense stat in this game is problematic as a player. From the WHM perspective, meriting Protectra V isn't very appealing since its boost over IV isn't very high, and now we have single-target Protect V. While it might be possible for a player to stack defense well over a mob's ATK rating, when the mobs themselves are rocking D200+ "weapons" on the standard 240 delay, they can still hit pretty hard.

I'd like to take a page from the Shell line and propose Protect spells get a direct percentage mitigation of physical damage. I'm not talking paltry numbers like 1% per tier, either, but more like Shell's.

As is, Enhancing Magic holds no effect over the Protect line. If the above is considered, skill could affect the -DT% rate. As an alternative, Protect spells could also grant a percentage HP increase that could also scale with skill relative to the tier.

10 Shell spells. (5 types, WHM AoE and WHM/RDM/SCH/PLD single-target)
At present, these are largely fine. Though, like with Protect, Enhancing holds no sway in their potency. As such, I'd propose a small universal barspell effect reflective of the tier, like 1-9 for T1, 10-19 for T2, and up to 50 for T5.

5 Regen spells.
These recently got an overhaul, addressing issues like their cast time and actual amount of HP restored, further favoring use by SCH as a main job. For the most part, I'd say they're in a good place now, save maybe their durations being too short.

2 Refresh spells.
With people getting access to Refresh from /RDM, mainly for self-cast purposes, getting 110 MP over 150s isn't what it used to be for jobs like BLM where your new spells are running for 250 MP or more. Alongside duration boosts, some element of gaining 1 MP per tick relative to your enhancing skill would be welcome, leading to perhaps a possible 6 MP/tick Refresh while Refresh II could hit 10 before gear additions.

Adloquium. (TP Regen)
At 1 TP/tick default, this spell isn't very impressive when compared to COR's equivalent roll. Bumping it to 3 TP would be nice, but like Refresh, could benefit from Enhancing skill improvements.

8 Storm spells.
With the recent Helix adjustments, part of me wants to petition the level requirements for Storm spells be lowered. Having them work toward weather requirements on Magian trials would be another bonus. However, from the Enhancing perspective, at present these spells function like level 1 weather effects. The obvious notion here would be for skill to further nudge them toward double weather or even beyond.

4 Spikes Spells.
Aside from PLD and Reprisal, the big issue with these spells is the jobs that receive them should rarely be getting hit outside of RDM melee soloing. Reprisal could benefit from a longer duration given its long recast. Overall, I can only suggest stronger potencies tailored to a spell's strength, like Blaze doing more fire damage, Ice having a more potent paralyze, and Shock stunning more often.

2 Phalanx Spells.
These haven't scaled well with leveling at all. Even with Signet's defense bonus on, I've had mobs in Zeruhn hit me on RDM for 70+. Its futility grows on NMs who hit for hundreds, or worse, thousands. And with Phalanx II as a merit spell, I know myself and others are sore over having to choose it and max it just for it to be useful, while a SCH/RDM or RDM/SCH can Accession a comparable Phalanx for basically free. All merit spells should be scroll learned at this point, and abilities progressed or at least quested.

Anyway, either the scaling needs to be better post-300, like 3-5 damage mitigated instead of 1, or like Protect, the Phalanx line could benefit from either a percentage damage reduction or even healing the person the amount of the damage they blocked.

Stoneskin.
Caps at 350 and has done so since the level 75 cap. Basically, I'd like to see this closer to 600 with gear that boosts Stoneskin being more effective. I'm also open to the idea of a Stoneskin II with the stoneskin effect regenerating if it's not completely broken.

Aquaveil.
This spell was changed sometime back. For now, I guess it's okay.

Blink.
More shadows relative to Enhancing skill like Blue Mage's Occulation would be nice.

12 Enspells.
These have been a sore spot for RDMs for a while. Overall, neither tier scales well, much like Phalanx. The T2s are still facing the long time issue of their accuracy and potency being based on-strike as opposed to on-cast. Rather simply, a RDM won't be swinging in Enhancing Magic gear. The actual damage of T2s also needs to outweigh multi-hitting T1s if you're going to insist on the main-strike only for damage. Furthermore, the T2's resist down effect needs to be much more effective and actually corresponding to the element used, as most of the time you're forced to use one a mob is strong to to weaken another pitifully.

Auspice.
Aside from Subtle Blow capping, there's not really anything wrong with this. Maybe if the WHM is in Misery mode, other players could get the Enlight effect.

Temper.
At its initial launch of 5%, it sucked. Fortunately we were heard and the spell improved, floating around 13% last time testing was done on it with a good skill build.

Animus Augeo and Minuo.
Flaws in the enmity system aside, these spells should simply up potency of enmity generated or negated based on skill with the (-)10 being its default value. Breaking enmity gear caps would also be nice.

14 Stat boosting spells. (7 types, WHM AoE and RDM single-target)
I guess the original intent of this thread, and otherwise have been covered. +25 to a stat is pretty nice, and even better for WHMs who can AoE. Perhaps the only tweak I can ponder is them adding stat specific perks over a cap like MATK from INT, ATK from STR, and so on.


Hopefully that'll get the ball rolling a bit. x.x

[Dantedmc]

In additon to the above I'd like to add "barall" and "barallra". It's somewhat annoying to have a barspell build set up only to have the nm cast multiple elments. These spells would be for those NMs. Barall(ra) would not be as strong as single element barspells (maybe 66-75% as potent), but be useful on multi-element casters. Also allow alot of the self cast buffs to be party cast. This includes the protectra/shellra line, the boosts, auspice, barspells, etc.

[raps1355]

In additon to the above I'd like to add "barall" and "barallra". It's somewhat annoying to have a barspell build set up only to have the nm cast multiple elments. These spells would be for those NMs. Barall(ra) would not be as strong as single element barspells (maybe 66-75% as potent), but be useful on multi-element casters. Also allow alot of the self cast buffs to be party cast. This includes the protectra/shellra line, the boosts, auspice, barspells, etc.

Would be interesting to have a new JT to allow more barspells to be cast, maybe 2-3 or even as this poster suggests the more we have the weaker the overall effect. But definately two elements at 100% power.

[Elaric]

Stoneskin.
Caps at 350 and has done so since the level 75 cap. Basically, I'd like to see this closer to 600 with gear that boosts Stoneskin being more effective. I'm also open to the idea of a Stoneskin II with the stoneskin effect regenerating if it's not completely broken.

Blink.
More shadows relative to Enhancing skill like Blue Mage's Occulation would be nice.

I completely agree with this. Stoneskin has not ramped with the level cap increase and needs to be adjusted. A cap to ~600 not including gear would be reasonable. Capping at 600 with gear I feel is still too low at 99. Not sure about the regeneration as that is a pretty powerful effect. Stoneskin II isn't needed if Stoneskin calculations are revamped correctly.

Another option if they don't want to raise the cap is lower the casting time by half, reduce the recast time and extend the duration to 30 min. The whole reason we have it up is because we are squishy and need another layer of protection.

Blink with more shadows at higher levels would also be welcome.

[Aleste]

Shy of missing the +5 magic defence bonus from casting barspells in Solace, it seems pretty spot on.

Note to self, I'll have to update my ffxiah itemsets :S

Honestly, in the grander scheme of things I think I'd be leaning towards the 183 w/ 8% resist set than the 185 6% resist set...

I wonder though, I vaguely remember someone posting something regarding the possibility of getting +skill augments on elite page of valor augments... Even if its possible to get 2-3 on one ring, and 3-2 on the other that would suffice to cap it out.

Additional edit :// Clarity on the +skill augments as a Elite regime fight seems possible.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Skahnowa


Presumably enhancing skill is a possibility then?

[Mageoholic]

There are caps placed on the amount abilities/magic effects are increased due to skill values.

There are two meanings to this:

In order to achieve balance at level 99, it’s necessary to establish a cap somewhere

Why exactly is a cap required on these spells? You have 3 jobs that can theoretically break the cap.
WHM- who has AoE buffs
SCH- who has no native buffs (so lets ignore them)
RDM- who has Phalanx II and Refresh II (the following is going to assume one day SE realizes they made RDM bar/gain spells self target and not party target)

Not all players benefit from having the same buffs as their allies, not all players are always in range of a WHM AoEing spells. Allowing a job like RDM (who already has these spells but don't currently work in a group setting) to cast them single target allows the group to provide buffs to everyone, and buffs that they can use.

For example, a WHM can Boost STR the melee members of the group, a RDM can then Gain MND the WHM, and Gain AGI ranged attackers, or Gain INT Nukers. A WHM can Bar the group of players in melee range, and a RDM can single target those outside of melee range.

There is no competition that would skew balance of buffing jobs, not with how they are split already.
WHM = AoE buffer,
RDM = Single target buffer, (if you fix the spells to actually work in a group that is)

These benefit each other. Capping their skill contributions based on a notion of phantom balance is absurd. Especially considering the fact these spells all stack with similar buffs from other jobs (so there is no balance issue there either.)

The only 2 jobs that would be affected really would be SCH (who has no native buffs of its own that would be in conflict with skill cap removal) and SMN (whose use in this game is tied to Alexander, and has need to be looked at for a long time, since about 04 when it was married to /WHM cure III spam).

There is no balance issue with allowing magic skills to be uncapped, as the jobs that should be using these spells should be the best at them. Furthermore skill should apply to all spells, not just the handful you deemed worthy. It is silly a BRD/RDM can cast haste just as well as my RDM or WHM. Especially considering as RDM or WHM I don't get the same type of bonus from /BRD. I hope by Balance you honestly aren't referring to mob v player balance, because if so you need to consider tweaking players to have AoE death, doom, and the ability to one shot monsters in their arsenals as well.

This should apply to all skills that have caps, it is absurd that the game artificially restricts jobs because they happen to have a skill that they are good at, not to mention fixing spells specifically on RDM that should have been single target from day one (or actually work on the damn mobs cough enfeebling cough.

[Economizer]

Why exactly is a cap required on these spells? You have 3 jobs that can theoretically break the cap.

I figured based on your posts in that one Red Mage forum that you might have been unaware of the caps.

Honestly, caps can be a very good thing. In this case I think that for Barspells and Gain/Boost spells, the Enhancing Magic cap is a very good thing, since it allows you to gear for other things just just "more Enhancing Magic" while making a spell set.

It is much like the Cure Potency cap. If Cure Potency didn't cap at 50%, White Mages everywhere would just have to stack on more and more of it, cures would be more powerful then intended, and gear to do stuff like Fast Cast and Haste, which significantly impact the way the job is played would have no place on a White Mage. It is far more fun to be able to have a few seconds shaved off a timer then to have to get every piece of cure potency gear in existence - including some augmented armor - just to maximize a number for some party, especially when the numbers were balanced around getting way less then is possible.

So the 500 cap is good. What is not good about it however is that certain spells have caps, scaling, and other functions that are designed around level 75 still. Certain spells could use increased duration (Auspice, Boost/Gain spells, and so on) whereas certain spells need increased potency (Stoneskin, Aquaveil, Blink, and so on) based on skill. Scaling these spells in certain functions based on skill to the current 500 cap would allow us to better use Enhancing Magic gear and decide if the current 500 cap is right (I'm inclined to think it is) after the fixes are implemented.