Boost spells + enhancing gear

[Economizer]

RDM's resist petrify trait is nice, but rarely works.

I think it has the most impact when combined with Barstone/ra, but honestly it is hard to tell what trait or spell put you over the top for that particular Break cast (and Tunga loves to chainspell them) since there are no indicators, so for all I know my experiences are just pure luck. I really wish we had more information on Resist traits and Barailment spells, but for now all I have is past experiences that could be affected by anything (and those past experiences say that Resist traits actually help but shouldn't be relied on and Barailment spells are as useful as carrying a 4-leaf mandragora bud and fighting monsters on the full moon while facing north on Lightsday).

Anyways, enhancing magic in general needs a boost. For both WHM and RDM.

Scaling/caps, effects affected by skill, durations affected by skill (pretty much everything I said before). But since it came up... can we at least get more information on barailement spells even if they'll never be changed? The last time we begged for information the barelement spells came up instead when those are fine (well, we need Bardark/Barlight but otherwise they are fine).

[Aleste]

Do the barspells cap out (with Enhancing) as well? If so, at what amount?

Tested it today, at 500 skill/gear and the highest we can get is 185 resist on a specific element...


Notes:WHM/SCH, light arts, 20 light resist is due to Colossus' torque

I don't actually barspell in the above (I prefer to use 4/5 AF3+2 for the 8% negate chance), and it was used so that I could adequately hit 500 skill without sacrificing too many slots.

Without using zenith to cap out enhancing magic, I sit at 183 resist, and I don't think it's worthwhile wasting time for the other +2skill earring to bump it up to 184 resist.

[Economizer]

Tested it today, at 500 skill/gear and the highest we can get is 185 resist on a specific element..

Thanks for the information. I did some digging to see exactly what gear you had represented.

I listed out the set, including the augmented earring, for my text based purposes:

• White Mage (378, C+)
  Base 378
• Light Arts (404, B+)
  +26
• Merits
  +16 Enhancing Magic
  +10 Barspell, +10 MDB
• Beneficus (Club)
  +15
  +5 MDB
• Orison Cap +2 (Head)
  +0
  AF3 Set Bonus
• Colossus's Torque (Neck)
  +7 (+10, Lightsday)
• Augmenting Earring (Earring, Rare)
  +3
• Aptus Earring (Earring)
  +2 (Augment from Tenshodo Coffer)
• Orison Bliaud +2 (Body)
  +0 Enhancing
  +10 MDB, AF3 Set Bonus
• Augur's Gloves (Hands)
  +5 Enhancing
• Merciful Cape (Back)
  +5 Enhancing
• Olympus Sash (Waist)
  +5 Enhancing
• Cleric's pantaloons +2 (Legs)
  +18 Enhancing
  +25 Barspell
• Orison Duckbills +2 (Feet)
  +20 Enhancing
  AF3 Set Bonus

This setup would lead to 500 Enhancing (and thus 150 resist base), +10 from merits, and +25 from the AF2+2 pants. It also gives something to the tune of +25 MDB (does Afflatus Solace give +10 or +15 with the AF3 body? I think it is just +10 based on the information I have). While clearly, the AF2+2 pants are the best gear for their slot, I wonder if another 2% total resist or +2 Barspell resist is the better choice. If only SE would give us a +5 upgrade to a slot, such as an earring with +7 Enhancing Magic, or a Ring with +5 Enhancing Magic, or even a Mercy Cape +1 with +10 buffs, we wouldn't have to decide.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It seems all RDM's enhancing buffs cap at 500 for potency so I would surmise that WHM's caps here also. Still +25 to any stat is ridiculously nice, and you guys get to aoe it as well. 150 base on barspells also.


Quick story note, the other day we were out in abyssea (OMG yes people still do this) to finish farming one of our LS mates Ukon. As RDM I put up barstone + barpetrify when we were farming TE's and doing Tunga. He chainspelled Break / Breakga and didn't petrify me once the entire time. His petrify / slow / nukes got resisted every time, was pretty awesome considering all the headache he's caused in the past. With WHM's getting more potent barspells due to gear, it's something that all WHM's should be striving for.

So does this mean Temper caps at 20% then?

PS. How annoying it's capped and WHM can match RDM.

[Alkimi]

Could do that at 90, just required using Earth Wyrm Atma aswell. At 99 yeah your resist rate will be a lot higher.

[saevel]

Could do that at 90, just required using Earth Wyrm Atma aswell. At 99 yeah your resist rate will be a lot higher.

No special atmas. The resists were pure barspell stacking.

And its not level as well, everyone ~else~ was petrified.

[Camate]

As Economizer has added to his most recent post, there was in fact a post in regards to magic skill caps on the Japanese forums. The below is the official translation:

There are caps placed on the amount abilities/magic effects are increased due to skill values.

There are two meanings to this:

• In order to achieve balance at level 99, it’s necessary to establish a cap somewhere
• Set up some leeway to be able to have creativity/trial-and-error for enhancing other parameters and having a choice of equipment

Similar to how we raised the caps on traits from level 75 and up, we will be making continuous adjustments and it’s not like we won’t be raising the caps in the future. However, in the meantime, based on the current cap when reaching level 99, we would like to get a wide variety of feedback.

When giving feedback, please have discussions separating them into elements such as the below:

• How to consider the cap itself in the future
• Exploration of other growth methods once the cap is reached
• Ideas and concepts of abilities/equipment with caps

[Seiowan]

As Economizer has added to his most recent post, there was in fact a post in regards to magic skill caps on the Japanese forums. The below is the official translation:

There are caps placed on the amount abilities/magic effects are increased due to skill values.

There are two meanings to this:

• In order to achieve balance at level 99, it’s necessary to establish a cap somewhere
• Set up some leeway to be able to have creativity/trial-and-error for enhancing other parameters and having a choice of equipment

Similar to how we raised the caps on traits from level 75 and up, we will be making continuous adjustments and it’s not like we won’t be raising the caps in the future. However, in the meantime, based on the current cap when reaching level 99, we would like to get a wide variety of feedback.

When giving feedback, please have discussions separating them into elements such as the below:

• How to consider the cap itself in the future
• Exploration of other growth methods once the cap is reached
• Ideas and concepts of abilities/equipment with caps

If we are to consider the magic caps themselves, we need to consider also what effect magic skill actually has on casting in the first place. People are unlikely to merit skills which are deemed to have little or no effect, and there are quite a large assortment of magic skills which are considered to be 'junk'. I'll review those shortly.

Healing Magic: Aside from being one of the most painful skills to level in the first place short of spamming it on undead for countless hours, healing magic appears to have shockingly little effect on heals beyond a certain point. Even Cure V, which works Healing skill into the calculation, gets little gain after a point easily reached without spending a single merit. The only point of note is that it prevents spell interruptions more often, which is vital if you're trying to heal under fire.

Solution: Grant higher skill a better chance of removing Doom/Zombie with Cursna (something which doesn't happen currently). Fix the healing calculations so that healing skill has a more pronounced effect. The latter would also have the bonus knock-on effect of making Red Mage's and Scholar's more viable healers without having to borrow WHM's spells and abilities.

Divine Magic: Flash has such a high accuracy that few people will merit Divine to increase its accuracy. Beyond that, the Banish line of spells (even taking into consideration Afflatus Misery -- which only works as long as you were dealt a single high-damage blow last time) are still very weak spells and rarely find a purpose beyond weakness targeting. The main reason for meriting Divine Magic is neither attacks nor Flash, but Repose. Arguably however, it is accurate enough not to require further boosting beyond gear.

Solution: Make Banish spells suck less. Or at least give us Banish IV/V. It's been a long time coming, so throw us a bone here! Seriously though, this is one of the few I'd say is "working as intended" even though I maintain it has little use beyond casting Repose.

Enfeebling Magic: Hoo boy, this one is a doozy. Everyone loves it (for some reason) and everyone hates it (for the same reasons). Let's start with the obvious shall we? Enfeebles just aren't useful anymore. There, I said it. Someone had to point this out eventually. Against the targets they would actually be a benefit for, the monsters are now immune to said effect. People would once grab every tiny piece of enfeebling magic gear to hand for a chance to enfeeble 'HNMs' and now enfeebling is largely left by the wayside by all besides devout Red Mages. Accuracy versus the newer high level NMs is incredibly low or outright resisted on principle, and there have been very few unique enfeebles for Red Mage leaving them playing second-fiddle to other jobs.

Solution: While the skill itself does improve accuracy, having so many monsters actually immune to the effects renders the whole idea useless. Put Red Mage back into the leaderboard by giving them unique traits which allow them to bypass this resistance to some degree and inflict lasting enfeebles on monsters which would otherwise shrug them off. Perhaps add the chance to remove an additional positive effect with Dispel when cast by a Red Mage. Give people a reason to use enfeebles, and this skill will be back on top where it belongs.

Elemental: Not really much to say about this one. Higher skill means higher accuracy with nukes. Rarely will there come a time where you've got 'too much accuracy' as the strength of NMs is always increasing. This is one of the few skills I have no real issue with.

Solution: None. If it isn't broken, for the love of Altana don't fix it!

Dark Magic: My issues with Dark Magic may seem minor, but it does highlight some interesting points. Firstly there are so few actual Dark magic spells in the game. Bio, Aspir, Drain, Stun, Absorb and Dread Spikes are the only ones which seem affected by Dark Magic skill, and Stun only in a minor way as it usually lands effectively even when used as in a supporting role due to its high accuracy. It's main use I suppose seems to be increasing the DoT of Bio spells, which is largely outdated in today's gameplay.

Solution: As it would be difficult to balance making this skill have a more pronounced effect on Drain/Aspir (Drain especially, since it has a very high damage/MP ratio AND recovers HP), that should probably be given a wide berth. Instead either bring in new Dark Magic spells to fill the gaps or give it some effect on Bio's 'attack down' debuff strength.

Enhancing Magic: The caps for the majority of skills are reached long before your skill is, but this one does have a significant impact irrespective of how high your skill increases on spells like Boost-AGI. That said, there are a lot of spells which could benefit from putting this skill to use which don't presently, or appear to have no effect.

Solution: Give Bar-Status spells (Barpoison, Barparalyzra etc) a significant boost to reducing the duration of it's relative spell based on Enhancing Magic. At present they're almost never used as the effect is so small as to not be noticed by the majority of players. Better yet, give them a chance at nullifying any attempts to inflict that status ailment in the first place! Make Protect/Shell spells improve with Enhancing skill! Raise the caps on Enfire et al!

Seriously, there are a LOT of spells which either don't benefit at all, or don't benefit enough. This one needs serious review!

I'd post more, believe me I could, but I have a kid to get into school this morning. I'll probably update this post later to include the bits I've omitted.

[raps1355]

As Economizer has added to his most recent post, there was in fact a post in regards to magic skill caps on the Japanese forums. The below is the official translation:

There are caps placed on the amount abilities/magic effects are increased due to skill values.

There are two meanings to this:

• In order to achieve balance at level 99, it’s necessary to establish a cap somewhere
• Set up some leeway to be able to have creativity/trial-and-error for enhancing other parameters and having a choice of equipment

Similar to how we raised the caps on traits from level 75 and up, we will be making continuous adjustments and it’s not like we won’t be raising the caps in the future. However, in the meantime, based on the current cap when reaching level 99, we would like to get a wide variety of feedback.

When giving feedback, please have discussions separating them into elements such as the below:

• How to consider the cap itself in the future
• Exploration of other growth methods once the cap is reached
• Ideas and concepts of abilities/equipment with caps

I think that in the past enhancing magic as a whole was not very useful due to caps being placed far too low than they should have been. What i have seen with the lvl 80 cap increase and onward is where skill caps have risen and new enhancing gear has become available, players have started to notice good resists on old content that was designed for lvl 75 suggesting if the caps were higher they could have potential. In maps such as abyssea players have access to the 100+ elemental atmas which when combined with a good whm barspell you can block things such as Gamayun's aerial blast (2 hour move) for 0 damage etc so that right there is what whms want to be able to do on occasion. Now we are not saying that we want to consistantly block all top end NM's strongest magical attacks but should more a case of;

Assuming the best possible gear setup available.

10% for 0 damage
15% for 1/8 damage
25% for 1/4 damage
50% for half damage

On the matter of the actual cap itself that should be set by gear available and not and actual cut off point on the skill lvl, players will always go after the best possible setup with exceptions being in this case the aptus earring due to only getting one try per day at getting one or the +8 on the zenith crown. Perhaps the DEVs could consider making the magic skills turn red instead of blue to show that it is capped and no longer providing any extra benefits as had i not have come to this forum i would still be collecting enhancing gear and i am sure there are many others who still dont know about said caps.

The other problem alot of players notice and some have mentioned here already is the enhancing magic skill does nothing for alot of spells such as protect, shell, regen, refresh etc. There should be a collosal difference in a whm main player and a whm mule when it comes to buffs but right now its marginal.

[Economizer]

PS. How annoying it's capped and WHM can match RDM.

RDM has an easier time gearing for Enhancing and doesn't have to sub SCH, and can do it without compromising certain setups.

Red Mage's problems mostly come from a variety of sources, but White Mage being good at certain things isn't one of them - complaining about it by saying White Mage should be in a worse position is almost as bad as bringing up Dragoon in a thread about magic skill caps. Also 20% Double Attack is amazing so long as it comes from the amount you have on cast.

The other problem alot of players notice and some have mentioned here already is the enhancing magic skill does nothing for alot of spells such as protect, shell, regen, refresh etc. There should be a collosal difference in a whm main player and a whm mule when it comes to buffs but right now its marginal.

While I'm fine with Shellra V 5/5 (which by the way, only gives a 3% buff over Shell V, for people suggesting that Protectra should be boosted in the same way) there are a lot of spells that would be nice to see affected by Enhancing that aren't, among other adjustments. Protect for example could use a defense boost that doesn't require having merits or gear, or perhaps some other trait that makes the spell line more useful in general, like spell interrupt down. That said, there are things that require more attention currently.

Erase is an Enhancing Magic spell currently, it should be changed to Healing Magic before any adjustments should be made to it. Regen just got an adjustment and should be given some time to be well tested before we change it (although RDM should get another tier at least). Refresh II, like I'd suggested in the past, should scale with Enhancing Magic - I'm not sure of the exact numbers I've suggested in the past, but I think I suggested something in the neighborhood of skill above 300 should boost it much like boost spells, but with a less favorable formula of something like 20 skill per point added - which would lead to a cap of 17 including the AF3+2 pants - considering what Bard can pull off this only seems fair to me.

Spells like Stoneskin, Blink, Aquaveil could use skill adjustments and higher caps.

Certain spells could use longer durations with more skill. Auspice comes most to mind due to its horrifically bad duration (which was only ever okay when Auspice provided massive accuracy boosts if you never let it disappear), but other spells could use it too.

The Enspells need a revamp almost as badly as Barstatus spells. Tier 2 enspells can start by working on every hit like T1, making the skill entirely on cast and should have the magic evasion effect based on Enhancing Magic rather then the flat rate it has now.

For barelement spells we need Barlight/ra and Bardark/ra. This is the only adjustment that is needed.

For certain Scholar spells like the storm spells adjustments are a bit more complex, but for example, I think the storm spells could have longer durations and increase the chances of procing weather effects on people without an obi equipped, and for those with one equipped the occasional chance at double weather. For Scholar main perhaps we'll see an increased chance at weather procs, a chance at double weather procing for non-obi users and for obi users a chance of double weather and day procs. Or something somewhat like this.

Would be interesting to have a new JT to allow more barspells to be cast

Considering how powerful Barspells are I don't expect to be able to cast a second element short of some rare gear piece that allows it (same with a supposed Barall spell). Perhaps if SE ever updates the Evoker's Ring and the Black Belt we'll see job specific super gear much like those two pieces (Such as SCH getting something that gives Stratagems Stored +1 and Conserve Stratagem, or Puppetmaster getting a special attachment/frame that aside from other functions, has the Automaton cast Raise on the master if they die). Basically, I think it is a possibility if we see more super powerful gear someday, but I don't think it will ever be a class feature.

-

All in all, I don't see a 500 Enhancing Magic cap as an issue at all, but certain spells should be brought up to the level of spells that cap at that number, be it with allowing them to scale, increasing durations, or just raising the level they cap at.

For other spells I think they would be more appropriate to discuss in other topics.