Proc systems are so annoying. please do away with them forever

[Anewie]

Not to really bitch, but perhaps the original post should have stated that. And not "everyone" is against it. I know i'm not. As stated before, I actually like being able to control drop rates (to some extent) rather than rely on the mysterious TH. Snag a Thief with max TH and you can still struggle to get anything.....

I would probably have an issue with the proc system in VW....where it seems to be fairly pointless.

it was a breathe of fresh air in abys. then vw chap 1, then dynamis... i mean.. like... yeah.. No more please.

[detlef]

Only place i am against the proc system is in dynamis. unlike abys and voidwatch, dynamis is always tiresome.

Dynamis has to have procs. Otherwise you'd have people pulling humongous amounts of mobs and cleaving them.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

TBH, everyone is sick of proc systems. Please keep them out of the toau revamp.

You do realize they that added these proc systems to the game because all of you pissed and moaned about "not being usefull" in abyssea right? You asked this and you go it. You made your bed, now lay in it.

[Alhanelem]

You realize for better or worse that Abyssea forced players to bring certain jobs into zone if they wanted drops right? Prior to this it was WAR WHM RDM BRD COR SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM SAM THF, CS stun, zerg, jerk off to parses or drops.

Uhm... yeah, sorry but Abyssea is no better than what you described. WAR covers almost all weaponskill procs easily. You need a few mages for yellow but they're for the most part the ones already most likely to be there anyway. BLU is the only exception really. Other jobs don't really show up except in EXP alliances.

[Sparthos]

Uhm... yeah, sorry but Abyssea is no better than what you described. WAR covers almost all weaponskill procs easily. You need a few mages for yellow but they're for the most part the ones already most likely to be there anyway. BLU is the only exception really. Other jobs don't really show up except in EXP alliances.

Which is why Voidwatch expanded on the procs in Abyssea.

OP wants to throw out proc systems.

Guess where the game is going with no procs?

[Alhanelem]

Which is why Voidwatch expanded on the procs in Abyssea.

OP wants to throw out proc systems.

Guess where the game is going with no procs?

I want them to throw out proc systems too. It's a very poor way to address zerging, and really didn't do much to reduce pigenholing of job selection.

[echoelman]

Guess where the game is going with no procs?

Engaging battles against enemies that do not utilize timesinks to artificially increase difficulty, reward players for bringing any sensible combination of Support/DD/Utility jobs, and are set in the context of a points-for-loot system?

Oh right, this is a a decade-old MMO where minor updates to issues that should have never existed, such as "You will no longer lose items when paralyzed", are a godsend.

I think the overarching problem is that the game kinda works with 4-6 man parties against single, powerful enemies, but pitting 18 people against one or two walls of HP is just stupid. Creating a series of fights against a single target and slapping on the "Alliance Content!" label is the lazy alternative to designing fights against several active threats that play well with the strengths and weaknesses of most jobs.

[Sparthos]

Engaging battles against enemies that do not utilize timesinks to artificially increase difficulty, reward players for bringing any sensible combination of Support/DD/Utility jobs, and are set in the context of a points-for-loot system?

Oh right, this is a a decade-old MMO where minor updates to issues that should have never existed, such as "You will no longer lose items when paralyzed", are a godsend.

I think the overarching problem is that the game kinda works with 4-6 man parties against single, powerful enemies, but pitting 18 people against one or two walls of HP is just stupid. Creating a series of fights against a single target and slapping on the "Alliance Content!" label is the lazy alternative to designing fights against several active threats that play well with the strengths and weaknesses of most jobs.

What qualifies as 'engaging'? That's a pretty ambiguous term which can mean damn near anything.

In FFXI oft means 'do i get loot' and if the monster doesn't have defenses it becomes a DD burn which is partly why procs were designed to 'artificially draw out' battles. 'Sensible DD/utility/support jobs'? You mean the top 1-2 DD and your standard support line because without those timesinks or roadblocks, the game naturally liquifies into stun, run, gun and no fun.

Like it or not, content needs some elements of a time sink to make certain classes viable. No one is ever going to call upon a PUP unless the content dictates you NEED a PUP to show up or you can't obtain loot. Is it heavy handed? Yup, but that's how you change the mentality the base has with regards to the job pyramid.

It doesn't mean the content can't be fun but the idea that a mythical 'challenging' monster with no procs is going to naturally work out to jobs like PUP THF DRG BST PLD or RDM being asked to show up isn't going to happen. If it's too easy, you wind up with the above scenario (stun and gun) and if it's too hard you get whining on the boards, a singular strategy that takes hold (throw SMNs at it!) and almost zero variance among the mainstream base. Look at how fast the recent genkai went from any job to 'throw bsts at it' or 'zerg is the ONLY way to win'.

More assault-style content where you need to use unique aspects of a certain class would go a long way in promoting job variety. An event where you need a RDMs enfeebles to cause monsters to react in a certain way relevant to reaching the goal, a battle where a Beastmasters choice of pet affects the target monster that appears or an event where the goal is simply to withstand a barrage of attacks within X time period.

I agree that Voidwatch is pretty lazily thrown together but that is because of the declining resources this game is getting from the powers that be. Ideally your alliance content would have proper adds, a WoE style slog through trash mobs to reach the boss and tactical play such as avoiding floor traps, constant repositioning or responding to varying modes or stances.

[echoelman]

What qualifies as 'engaging'? That's a pretty ambiguous term which can mean damn near anything.

You're right. I suppose I could clarify and say "a battle system in which zerging is not the optimal strategy and not because it is limited by proc systems", but that's still pretty vague. Again, probably because 18 vs. 1 battles simply don't work in the game's current framework.

Ideally your alliance content would have proper adds, a WoE style slog through trash mobs to reach the boss and tactical play such as avoiding floor traps, constant repositioning or responding to varying modes or stances.

Sign me up!

[Greatguardian]

Uhm... yeah, sorry but Abyssea is no better than what you described. WAR covers almost all weaponskill procs easily. You need a few mages for yellow but they're for the most part the ones already most likely to be there anyway. BLU is the only exception really. Other jobs don't really show up except in EXP alliances.

War Nin Mnk Blm Whm Blu is better than Sam Brd Rdm by a factor of 2. Voidwatch took that even further before people figured out that Blue light was worthless.

FFXI Damage and Enmity mechanics are so poorly conceived for Endgame that there's really nothing they'll ever be able to do about "making every job wanted", honestly.

On top of that, there are 20 jobs and 18 slots in an alliance. Requiring 1 job at random for anything in an event means even taking an alliance of completely unique jobs means that you could skill be screwed, and requiring 1 fixed job for certain events just means people will take that one job plus whatever is best.

SE would be better off making more events where combat is not the only road to success.

If you want NMs to slow down and be taken more strategically, they'd need to lower their offensive capabilities, increase their defensive capabilities, and vastly improve combat AI. Damage absorbs, stances, AI changes if people screw up. This will mean people will need to pay attention and fewer melees splurging on the NM would be safer unless you're with a really good group.