New Weaponskills - Not what was expected

[Zinato]

This is my problem the pet stats are not match to pet jobs, mage to mage, melee to melee, evasion to evasion. this is the one and only split that really suck because its such an incredible augment. And as you just stated most are crap, this one is of the few that is not.

[Meyi]

But why do we have to pick and customize one job while letting another fall? Merits serve to make our job stronger should we choose to chase them, and is another way of adding on levels of power without actually adding on levels. I don't see why it's such a big deal to make every job stronger and have access to everything, once again, should we choose to.

I agree with Karbuncle on this.

[Alhanelem]

But why do we have to pick and customize one job while letting another fall?

Because you're not supposed to be the best at every job. You pick your favorites. The game was NOT designed, as many popularly seem to believe, for everyone to max out every job. They expected that only a small number of people would do this (and not as many people do it as you probably think) and prior to abyssea, the number of people with every job capped was VERY small.

This is being in a box: "Hey guys, here's twenty jobs. You can level them all, but you can only have 3 good ones because we think that sacrificing performance on jobs that you like so that you can merit the jobs people want you to merit makes you special." *gives you the same look that forest gump's mom gives him.*

You're taking this to a ridiculous extreme. You're not automatically terrible if you didn't max out <insert comabt skill merit here> for <insert job here>. You have an edge, yes, but you act as if any given job is unplayable if you didn't perfectly merit for that specific job. It's simply not the case. You get to be a little stronger on some and not quite as strong on others.

Of course, there's no stopping the bandwagon of "let's have everything" becauseu given the choice between having all of osmething versus not having all of something, anyone would choose all. Weren't any of you taught growing up that you can't always get everything you want?

gogogo limited possibility:
Add a 3per slot/type limit to number of trial you can finish (3empyrean armor+2, 3relic+2, 3 weapon)
Add special Rare tag on R/EX armor that let you only get one item from the different "set" (if you get toci's you cant get heka's or mekira)
add a 1per slot limit on cursed equipment you can uncursed,salvage you can upgrade....
add a 3limit to job you can lvl over95 since you can't be efficient with more than 3

Again taking things to ridiculous extremes. This doesn't help your point. It's not like you can only buff one job. You can buff sevral, especially where skills overlap, and there's the job specific categories which you can raise all of. You get a LOT of leeway. You simply can't have EVERYTHING. I am not and will not propose silly, arbitrary new restrictions on existing things. However. The merit system is fine the way it is. it does not need to be changed to accomodate a few people on insisting on being the best at all 20 jobs.

This thread in a nutshell: GIMME EVERYTHING! NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, I WANT ALL OF IT! I wonder why I don't see this mentality on any other MMO...

In D&D, you can't take every feat or learn every spell (or use every spell at once). You can't multiclass into every class. You can't have every enhancement. Does anyone complain about this? No, because the game was designed and balanced around these constraints.

In WoW, you can't learn every talent on every tree. The only difference from the merit system here is that you can reconfigure your talents more easily than you can reconfigure merits. Nobody complains about not being able to have every talent.

In FFXIV, you can't set every action from every class job on another. You can't cap out the stat allocations to every stat. Nobody complains about this.

In the FFT games, which are the notable other example of characters being able to switch to any job (well, based on race anyway), you couldn't be the best in every job there either- your level up stat growth would be based on your current job at the time of level up, so your character would either be a jack of trades or gravitate towards one job or group of jobs. Nobody seemed to think this was a bad system for those games.

ONLY IN FFXI do i see this. Everyone apparently wants to be all the same as everyone else 100%. Why is having people make decisions such a horrible thing?

[FrankReynolds]

Because you're not supposed to be the best at every job. You pick your favorites. The game was NOT designed, as many popularly seem to believe, for everyone to max out every job. They expected that only a small number of people would do this (and not as many people do it as you probably think) and prior to abyssea, the number of people with every job capped was VERY small.

This game was designed very long ago, and most of what we do now was not originally intended. That is not a valid form of reasoning. The game changed. People changed. Limits like this annoy most people, while providing virtually zero benefit. The number of jobs that are capped can be naturally capped just by making the cost in merit points high enough that most people would only choose to max a few jobs., while still providing the option to people who choose to do so.

You're taking this to a ridiculous extreme. You're not automatically terrible if you didn't max out <insert comabt skill merit here> for <insert job here>. You have an edge, yes, but you act as if any given job is unplayable if you didn't perfectly merit for that specific job. It's simply not the case. You get to be a little stronger on some and not quite as strong on others.

Yes, if you look at one category in a vacuum, they are very insignificant. However, when you look at them all in real practice like this situation: where 2 sam in identical gear, have a difference of 15 strength, 16 base skill (that means acc and att.), 8 emnity, 150 base HP, %4 crit base, and 1 has shoha and stardiver. the other does not. Why? because 1 guy merited a bunch of crap like - emnity, and MP so that he could help his ls out on other jobs, even though he doesn't like those jobs.

Of course, there's no stopping the bandwagon of "let's have everything" becauseu given the choice between having all of osmething versus not having all of something, anyone would choose all. Weren't any of you taught growing up that you can't always get everything you want?

No, I was taught that if I work hard enough, I can achieve. Who benefits by me having shitty a BARD or <insert job here>? People who feel better because their <insert job here> is better than mine?

Again taking things to ridiculous extremes. This doesn't help your point. It's not like you can only buff one job. You can buff sevral, especially where skills overlap, and there's the job specific categories which you can raise all of. You get a LOT of leeway. You simply can't have EVERYTHING. I am not and will not propose silly, arbitrary new restrictions on existing things. However. The merit system is fine the way it is. it does not need to be changed to accomodate a few people on insisting on being the best at all 20 jobs.

This attitude reminds me of old HNM bot shells that would let items drop to the floor if no one paid for them, just so that the price stayed high. Only you want peoples merits to drop to the floor, so that someone else's merits remain valuable.

This thread in a nutshell: GIMME EVERYTHING! NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, I WANT ALL OF IT! I wonder why I don't see this mentality on any other MMO...

If people earn it, they should have it.

In D&D, you can't take every feat or learn every spell (or use every spell at once). You can't multiclass into every class. You can't have every enhancement. Does anyone complain about this? No, because the game was designed and balanced around these constraints.

That's why that game sucks, and I don't play it.

In WoW, you can't learn every talent on every tree. The only difference from the merit system here is that you can reconfigure your talents more easily than you can reconfigure merits. Nobody complains about not being able to have every talent.

That's why that game sucks and I don't play it.

In FFXIV, you can't set every action from every class job on another. You can't cap out the stat allocations to every stat. Nobody complains about this.

That's why that game sucks, and I don't play it.

In the FFT games, which are the notable other example of characters being able to switch to any job (well, based on race anyway), you couldn't be the best in every job there either- your level up stat growth would be based on your current job at the time of level up, so your character would either be a jack of trades or gravitate towards one job or group of jobs. Nobody seemed to think this was a bad system for those games.

Guess what I was thinking here.

ONLY IN FFXI do i see this. Everyone apparently wants to be all the same as everyone else 100%. Why is having people make decisions such a horrible thing?

One of the hugest selling points of FFXI is being able to change jobs. Making overspecialized merit categories that force sacrifice (not choice) is not a selling point.

I decided I want to cap merits on 5 WS, but I can't, so i guess I'll be like everyone else and merit the 3 best ones. Too bad, that staff one looked kinda cool.

FYI: Right now, almost everyone is meriting 3 WS 5/5. If they remove the cap, almost no one will merit all WS 5/5, because most people don't even have all the weapons skilled that high. Now who is promoting choice?

Because you all want to be best at everything, and I just want to be better than you at one thing since I specialize.

No, you want people who play more than you to not be better than you. You think that because you only have time to max out 1 job, that that should be the cap. You want to be better than people even though they work harder.

[Sonshou]

I have no problem about having to pick on WS to merit on, but I wish we can have an option of fully merit one WS to lv5 and still able to perform all others at lv1.

Yes, just add the category limit to 18 I would be happy.

[Kristal]

• Modifiers that are better suited for job that use them.

MND on sword... really??? For the most part the modifiers are the norm you would expect for some of the jobs that will use them.

MND on a sword weaponskill isn't that odd if you consider the jobs likely to use it (PLD, RDM).

[Unleashhell]

MND on a sword weaponskill isn't that odd if you consider the jobs likely to use it (PLD, RDM).

Its odd because its the ONLY modifier for that weapon skill. At least the other sword weapon skill have STR as another modifier. At least most of the others do. Don't forget that there is a 20% ATT penalty with that WS. Technically you can just pop some ATT food but most of the time there are other food you use on PLD. Considering most people merit STR that also becomes a negative impact, because unless your a career WHM you dont usually merit MND. And all those merits help when modifiers for most sword weapon skills are STR and MND.

[Tashan]

The idea behind the merit point system when it was initially introduced was to allow players to diversify their jobs. That is why it is not possible to max everything out within a category.

Whilst we don't have to like it, you do have to deal with it.

----

As for weaponskills in particular, never has there been an update where all new WS' were best for the jobs that can use them. Mythic Weapons instantly springs to mind.

[Alhanelem]

As I mentioned before, I DO however think that the number of combat skills you can cap and the number of weaponskills you can cap should match eachother. Right now we get 4 weapon combat skills (or 3 weapon combat skills and 2 defense combat skills- perhaps this is what SE is thinking, because initially we were able to do 2 weapon and 1 defense skill) but can only get 3 weapon skills.

I think the chances are pretty good that they will increase this later.

[Return1]

The New WSes are fucking awesome, and some of the crap I've read in this thread is just outright wrong.

Apex Arrow: Situationally the best Archery WS.

Blade: Shun: Best katana WS outside of abyssea barring Blade: Hi.

Entropy: Hands down the most damaging Scythe WS in the game by a large margin.

Exenterator: A THF/DNC WS with a 100% AGI mod, what else needs be said?

Last Stand: 4.4 fTP with 100% AGI mod for gun. THF can also use without /RNG.

Realmrazer: Sucks if you have Hexa.

Requiescat: Sucks because of the -20% Attack penalty, the 100% MND mod is pretty reasonably since it's mostly PLD/RDM/BLU.

Resolution: Extremely powerful now that the -ATK has been reduced to -8%. 100% STR mod.

Ruinator: Shits all over Rampage outside of Abyssea, barring obscene defense. 100% STR mod, Belt/Gorgets across all hits with base fTP of 1.0 and a large attack boost.

Shattersoul: If for some reason you're meleeing as a Mage, this is the best staff WS.

Shijin Spiral: Already known to be awesome.

Stardiver: Strongest Polearm WS in the game outside of abyssea. Twice the STR mod, slightly less fTP, but no gigantic ATK down like Drakes.

Tachi: Shoha: 100% STR mod, huge ATK bonus, and stacks with TP Bonus even better than Y/G/K.

Upheaval: Only really good with Mighty Strikes, in which case, it's the best.