WHM/RDM

[Economizer]

blatent theft of Addle from Red Mage

Nothing was blatantly stolen from anyone because nothing was stolen. Red Mage has issues but none of them were ever White Mage being good at what it does - including being able to use light enfeebles on occasion. Honestly, if I wanted a mob to be enfeebled, I'd still invite a Red Mage, or perhaps the other jobs that keep getting enfeebles that Red Mage isn't like BLU, COR, or BRD - White Mage getting something that Red Mage has does not equal taking it away.

Scholar started by getting Regen spells at earlier levels long ago, and Regen spells became severely outdated for White Mage as White Mage finally got the much deserved MP efficiency on our key spell line - even a WHM without /SCH will destroy a SCH at MP efficient cures these days, as it all should be. Even if WHM got Regen V, it would still be MP inefficient for WHM, even with taking useless merits and getting the incredibly useless AF2+2 body which has useless increased Regen potency effects. Furthermore, one could argue that SE would have never released Regen V if it wasn't for Scholar... I certainly know they never had any plans of reducing the casting time like they did for White Mage, which is my sole frustration on the WHM side of the deal. Should Red Mage get Regen III? Yes. Should Red Mage get Regen IV? Probably. Should White Mage get Regen V? Who cares?

All three jobs, RDM, SCH and WHM need varying level of adjustments to up their power levels still - White Mage is not overpowered and in fact needs adjustments that could be considered buffs at this point, but is clearly very close to where they should be in terms of healing, enhancing and enfeebling. If anything, the issue is that Red Mage to a lesser extent, Scholar, are not where they should be in certain fields.

[Rewyen]

RDM is a good sub for BLM. Gives a slight INT boost which is great for non-mage specific races like Galka, though I would wager that /SCH would be better in any situation and race because RDM is more of a mage support and focuses more on DoT/Enfeebling magic, so if you're a solo player, /RDM is great for a NIN main if you don't have DNC available yet.

[Jerbob]

Simplifying the roles of jobs to that level is always difficult because most things can be justified. I could argue that White Mage's primary role is to restore HP efficiently, with high potency and with low enmity penalties, and thus any white magic that does so should be available to them. It doesn't really get us anywhere, though. We can make hypotheses forever regarding why a certain job possesses a certain spell or spell line and another doesn't, but what is more important is where we go from here.

I think it's unhealthy to force jobs into roles that specific, to be honest - especially when SCH is more than capable of putting out some pretty healthy healing numbers using (admittedly limited) strategems when necessary. SCH and Red Mage are better classified using a broader label such as "support casting" jobs - Red Mage with specialisations into enfeebling and self-enhancing (which I will be the first to point out that SE has broken horribly) and SCH with specialisations in... pretty much everything, unfortunately. SE needs to work on giving support casting jobs tools that make them worth placing in parties alongside the specialist casting jobs (White Mage and Black Mage) rather than having us all bicker amongst ourselves when we steal each other's roles and spells. This would mean concessions on both sides, but with benefits for both sides as well.

I wouldn't object to SCH specialising in regen if another job didn't clearly already possess such a specialisation. I'm not saying that regen doesn't fit SCH, I'm saying SCH does not have an exclusive right to it. Regen should not be SE's "quick fix" for SCH, just as SCH's claim to regen should not completely destroy any potential for the spell to be improved for other jobs.

I am sensing that an "agree to disagree" conclusion is inevitable here, which is very unfortunate.

[Jerbob]

I certainly don't disagree with that. Regen is terrible for White Mage at the moment. As I have said, though, SCH's new "mastery" of the spell line has made it very difficult / unlikely for SE to actually make regen worthwhile.

Regen is broken for White Mage currently. There is no point in casting it. That's not how things should be. In practical terms, access to Regen V is currently meaningless for White Mage one way or the other (as you have said). I don't think it's too much to hope that the regen line can be fixed so that having access to Regen V as a White Mage is an asset, as regen once was. As long as SCH holds this (badly thought out, in my opinion) mastery over regen this won't happen. That is the irritation that I'm talking about.

[Economizer]

actually make regen worthwhile

White Mage isn't going to be the best at using Regen spells but still will be the best healer. I don't think there is really much more to ask for then this.

Currently Cure V can get something to the tune of ~16.5 HP/MP (counting cureskin, ~22.25 HP/MP). Compare this to Regen IV's "best" (basically devoting merits and gear slots to it) ~13.85 HP/MP.

Easiest way I could think of currently without affecting "balance" too much would be to increase duration based on Enhancing Magic Skill. Scholars could still cure the most with a Regen spell but it would last longer, meaning more MP efficient. Of course, this would mean that using a Regen spell, Scholar would be the most MP efficient healer. Orison Mitts +2 would be changed to just boost the duration by 25% (basically the same as now if the duration is the same). Enhancing Magic over 300 could increase the duration by one tic every ten points to a maximum of 20 extra tics (at 500 Enhancing Magic). This would effectively double the duration, meaning that a White Mage just gearing for Enhancing would get ~16.22 HP/MP Regen IVs, while one gearing for Regen could get ~27.7 HP/MP Regen IVs. This would make the spells make sense to cast again from an efficiency perspective, however it would make the version Scholar's get incredibly MP efficient, given their buffs (and Red Mages too for that matter). As a result, I'd suggest that the duration bonus Light Arts gives does not stack with the skill boosts (however a Scholar with capped Enhancing Magic skill/gear could get a duration boost since it would be just slightly longer). Basically, while a White Mage could get two and a half minute Regens, Red Mages and Scholars using Stratagems could get something like seven and a half minute Regens.

All that said, if I was SE, this would be a very low priority change, since something like this isn't really going to change much. If anything, such a change would happen with Red Mage getting another tier or two of Regen, as a buff for them. If SE was going to devote time to adjusting White Mage's healing in particular (basically, not the cure formula changes they said they were mulling over that would benefit everyone), I'd hope it would be spend either on fixing Cure VI or buffing Afflatus Misery, not fixing the Regen spells. If they decide to change the Regen spells, more power to you, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Jerbob]

While I understand what you've said, and I get how those modifications to duration would work, I think regen needs a more significant overhaul across the board of all jobs in order for that overhaul to be worthwhile. The problem with how future modifications to regen would stack with SCH's new Light Arts enhancements should really be a non-issue; it would be silly to have two systems in place to enhance regen, so just have one blanket system based on enhancing skill.

Regen needs to not tick down when there's no HP to be restored. As it stands regen's efficiency decreases for every tick that a character is at full HP, which makes "pre-emptive" use of regen, except very occasionally on bloodtanks, rather pointless. Coupling this with a potency and duration increase, and perhaps other similar bonuses, would make regen worthwhile.

Strategems have always posed balance issues, so exactly what aspects of New Regen would be compatible with Accession and Perpetuance would have to be considered carefully. I would err on the side of caution lest /SCH become an even more mandatory subjob - this coming from my intense dislike of the general "one true subjob" phenomenon more so than anything else.

I would certainly agree that there are other problems that White Mage has - Cure VI definitely needs an overhaul, as you say, and I'd list making self-target AoE spells party targettable as a personal desire. Something to make Esuna more practical in dangerous and fast-paced situations would be nice too. But regen is actually broken in that it doesn't do the job that it's intended for; if SE just patch that up it'd be nice but, as you say, possibly less useful than fixing Cure VI. If they fix it properly, however, I'd argue that it'd be much nicer.