Dragoon Updates!

[Ophannus]

This attitude toward front line jobs is antiquated and irresponsible. NIN PLD and BLU are all commonly accepted front line jobs wich rely heavily on magic use to play effectively. The DRG HIMSELF must play as /Mage in order to even have access to status ailment cure breaths and is thereby also heavily reliant on magic. Back line/front line is not an acceptable excuse for not adding silena breath. Please add silena breath.

Originally Posted by Camate View Post

Cure Breath
Cure Breath only cures status ailments that affect the character’s ability to battle in the front-line, which is why we did not include silence or mute.

Referring to the Dragoon itself, not others. I think what Camate is trying to say is that by adding Remove Silence, it takes away roles from WHM/DNC/SCH and other jobs that have the ability to remove ailments. Dragoon's /Mage isn't meant to be a main healer but a support healer with the bare minimum status removals that are relevant only for front line melee combatants. A silenced NIN,BLU,PLD can still WS and swing their weapons and aren't in immediate danger of dropping dead so i suppose it's not that necessary.

[Ophannus]

Update observations.

Job Ability Timers

Jump/Spirit Jump: With merits, recast= 50 seconds.
High/Soul Jump: With merits, recast= 100 seconds(1min, 40 seconds)
Spirit Link: With no merits, recast=90 seconds(1min, 20 seconds)

Jump Range
It's hard to gauge but if I had to guesstimate, range on High Jump, Soul Jump and Super Jump have increased from 10' to 15'. Jump and Spirit Jump have remained unchanged.

Skill Caps
(Assuming 15 HP merits, 4 Parrying merits and 4 Evasion merits.)
HP(Hume):1643~>1708
Evasion Skill: 376~>406
Parrying Skill: 381~>396

Healing Breath IV Tests.

Healing Breath III(Before Update)

WyvernTP:0%
Head:Wyrm Armet+2
Body:Wyvern Mail
Hands:Ostreger Mitts
Ear:Lancer's Earring
Neck:Lancer's Torque
Back:Lancer's Pelerine
Waist:Glassblower's Belt
Legs: Drachen Brais+1
Feet:Wyrm Greaves+2

Total: 748
With Deep Breathing: 1228


Healing Breath IV
WyvernTP:0%

Head:Wyrm Armet+2
Body:Wyvern Mail
Hands:Ostreger Mitts
Ear:Lancer's Earring
Neck:Lancer's Torque
Back:Lancer's Pelerine
Waist:Glassblower's Belt
Legs: Drachen Brais+1
Feet:Wyrm Greaves+2

Total:887
With Deep Breathing: 1472
Wyvern EXP Bonus: 1095
Wyvern EXP Bonus+Deep Breathing:1831

(The animation is very short and less dramatic and a bit underwhelming compared to HBIII)

[Ophannus]

Overall I'm pleased with these updates. Healing Breath IV is strong but not too strong, though it can be potent given the right scenario(When the Wyvern is leveled up, it's a potent, 0MP Cure VI that makes 0 enmity...poor RDM's..)

The Jump recast are perfect and will lead to more, albeit still relatively weak weapon skills.

The only thing I'm at a loss for is the skill cap adjustments. The Evasion boost was certainly welcome but I fail to see how 15 parrying skill is going to make much of a difference considering how miniscule raising parrying skill does for actual parrying rates in addition to the difficulty of actually capping this skill, especially on a job like Dragoon. Perhaps you may look into removing the parrying bonus and strengthening the HP grade to B or B+ like SAM and WAR and giving us B+ evasion like MNK.

So if I could make suggestions they'd be:
-Increase HP further to B+
-Increase Evasion to B+
-Leave Parrying at C-.
-Increase Attack Power on Drakesbane OR Stardiver(though this might make SAM stronger as a result too), or give DRG another Attack Bonus or two or a new JA that boosts our Attack by a moderate amount so we don't lose out. DRG is the only 2handed melee that subs SAM that doesn't have a native attack boosting JA.(DRK has Last Resort/Endark, WAR has Warcry/Berserk)


-An addition to Steady Wing that gives a moderate chance (5-25%, depending on the Wyvern's HP) to absorb damage,healing the Wyvern, while the stoneskin is in effect. This gives us another chance to heal the Wyvern when it's lower on HP and Spirit Link is down and Steady Wing is up.

-Make Spirit Surge a 90 second duration. It was stated before that because the Haste category was altered to stack with magic and equipment haste that the recast would not be extended beyond 60 seconds(originally slated to be 90 seconds). I'd like to argue that Last Resort with Desperate Blows meritted grants the same potency Haste as Spirit Surge does, except Last Resort lasts 3minutes with a 5 min recast and Spirit Surge currently lasts 60 seconds with a 2 hour recast. Shouldn't the 2hr ability have a little more than 60 second duration compared to a level 15 DRK ability which lasts 3 minutes and grants the same potency to Haste. Or at least leave it at 60 second but grant us a +20% Attack or something during that time so our weapon skills could not only come more often but will be more potent, the +Attack would be more helpful in hard fights than the +STR that Spirit Surge adds.

[Ophannus]

I'm like 80% sure the current Healing Breath IV animation is the same as Healing Breath I. I'm assuming it's either a glitch or the new animation will be added when the update goes live.

Double checked, the animation is identical.

[Silkavenger]

Referring to the Dragoon itself, not others. I think what Camate is trying to say is that by adding Remove Silence, it takes away roles from WHM/DNC/SCH and other jobs that have the ability to remove ailments.

By this logic, explain why we get any cure breaths at all? I understand what you're saying in terms of balance. This is the though process behind not giving us AoE cure breaths. But if removing poison or virus from a single target, (limited only to when a DRG/Mage uses a WS), does not negatively affect the role of healing jobs currently, I suggest that silena breath would also not affect them. Wouldn't you agree?

A silenced NIN,BLU,PLD can still WS and swing their weapons and aren't in immediate danger of dropping dead so i suppose it's not that necessary.

Are you kind of kidding here? Heh. Aside from the fact that the same can be said of ailments like virus (not slow) and paralyze, those three jobs specifically use magic as a means to not drop dead. I've never seen a pt leave any of these 3 classes silenced and expect them to participate fully in the battle. To me, ability in the front line means not only offensive ability but defensive as well.

EDIT: oops on slow! Brain malfunction, heh.

[Ophannus]

I know what you mean, but I'm trying to play devil's advocate here. Also we can't remove slow. Virus isn't deadly but paralyze could be in some situations. I think they were focusing on having DRG remove those "OH SH--" debuffs that are important for melee and let the mages who are outside of AoE range deal with silena.

[Silkavenger]

Another thought.
RE: Cure breaths are intended to remove ailments from the dragoon himself as a main focus. (meaning I suppose that cure breaths affecting PT members is a kind of neat, tertiary bonus.) as it relates to remove silence.

If the cure breath's main function is to maintain the DRG himself, I suggest it no longer matters whether the DRG/mage is playing in a PT or solo for the sake of discussion. It therefor makes sense to examine a DRGs ability to participate in frontline battle during solo play as well. "Solo" play also includes massive battlefield events such as besieged, campaign or walk of echoes where there are other players around, but the DRG cannot depend on them to know his needs in a dire situation because of the chaotic nature of these events.

If the DRG/Mage is playing solo (or in large scale battles), silence is one of the single most fatal status ailments regarding survival, rivaled perhaps only by paralyze and doom. Paralyze is the ailment disired to be removed the quickest by the player base. I'll bet if we polled every DRG who voiced that opinion they would say "because among other things, paralyze interrupts casting, which stops healing breath, which causes death to me." Silence more completely stops casting, which stops healing breath, which causes death to me, thereby limiting my ability to participate in the front line.

[Silkavenger]

Sorry for over posting but I just can't stop thinking about how they are not telling us the real reason to not add remove silence. I appreciate you playing devil's advocate, Orphannus, because it really helps my flesh my opinion out on this subject.

You said paralyze can be deadly in some situations. The only time I can imagine paralyze being deadly is one in which a player is tanking and para prevented them from protecting or curing themselves. If this were the case wouldn't silence be just as deadly for a pld nin blu or even a drg/Mage or drk?

You said "OH SH-!" ailments. Don't you think "OH SH-!" when you get silenced on pld or drg/Mage? I do. At least only to the same degree that I think that when I get paralyzed. (and a fair bit more than when I get virused or poisoned, heh)

You said leave silena to the back line who are standing out of range. Couldn't the same be said for paralyze? Paralyze is just detrimental to back line as it is to front. Mages should stand back and take care of paralna for the front line. What in these cases is the difference between remove paralyze and remove silence?

I want SE to answer these questions but I don't think they can.

[brayen]

Why is it i see so much argument over silence being part of remove breath? echo drops are easily carried, and silence does not hinder a drg's front line capabilities(This means ability to do damage and be face to face with the monster). If anything i would think removing slow would be a better argument, or even bio/dia. I mean it would be light years of a better investment (if we are arguing over extending an ability)

[Silkavenger]

Antidotes and holy waters are also easily carried and yet they have chosen to include remove breaths for those ailments. Not a good argument.

A dead drg from inability to heal breath does not do damage, nor does he stand face to face with the monster. This is at least as good a reason to include remove silence as it is to include remove poison, which apparently is totally ok.