CDC build and BLU Melee Build and spell sets suggestions

[Nightfyre]

I think my statement was taken out of context.

Mmm, I don't think so. Let me quote the sentence that best exemplifies what I took issue with:

So, as much as it irritates me to say: you are unfortunately incorrect by calling it unrealistic (at least for PC players).

As I showed, you can negate 30% of all damage taken (assuming plain 5/5 Shellra V as a baseline for MDT, more with any enhancements) with a single standard macro. That's realistic for everyone, not just PC users. There was no reason to mention Spellcast at all and doing so was in fact counterproductive because that + the quoted text implies that those who don't use it can't realistically use defensive swaps effectively, which is simply untrue.

First, I never said one would cast Delta Thrust strictly because of the additional effect. I was supporting the many people who champion the use of the spell, by clearly spelling out the spell's capabilities to someone who appeared not to fully comprehend its value.

Delta Thrust, aside from its amazing cost-to-damage ratio, also has a chance to stick the mob with a debuff. I don't know why one wouldn't use Delta Thrust on everything, including NMs, breakfast bagels, the dancefloor, and so on.

I assumed that you had enough experience and understanding of BLU mechanics to know that physical spell damage, especially the damage of spells that neither have an attack bonus nor the ability to crit, will take a nosedive on high level/def targets and thus could only infer that you were using Delta Thrust on such NMs for the Plague effect given that it would otherwise be quite useless in that situation. I apologize and assure you I will not make that mistake again.

[Annahya]

As I showed, you can negate 30% of all damage taken (assuming plain 5/5 Shellra V as a baseline for MDT, more with any enhancements) with a single standard macro. That's realistic for everyone, not just PC users. There was no reason to mention Spellcast at all and doing so was in fact counterproductive because that + the quoted text implies that those who don't use it can't realistically use defensive swaps effectively, which is simply untrue.

This shows, rather pointedly, that you did take my statement out of context, however. To take a statement that begins with "so," without considering it against what came before it, is evidence as such. Even the qualification regarding "at least for PC players" is a contextual nod to the example I gave; one that is stripped of its relevance by separating it from the previous statements.

My statement spoke to the ability for people to use third-party macros/programs to do a great deal in the span of casting a spell, with relative ease should they be on a PC, so much so that it negates the ability to consider the timing "unrealistic." Your comments about a standard macro support my position that it is incorrect to state that it is unrealistic; but my cutting straight to the chase was not counter-productive. Your statement was a more concise counter to the person who made the original comment, but doing so does not show that it is counter-productive, nor does it invalidate its function as a conversational device.

My statement doesn't address anything about the capabilities of those without Spellcast, either - it merely states that because Spellcast exists, one cannot state that inhumanly fast gearswapping is unrealistic, because Spellcast makes it real. That is all. What I am guilty of, in the initial post regarding Spellcast, is my inability to restrain the disgust I feel for its use - and while it does bother me that I suffered from such lack of restraint, it in no way created the implication, in my words, that it was required to do so.

I entirely agree that one can defend oneself with standard macros, but defending oneself was not the crux of my statement.

I assumed that you had enough experience and understanding of BLU mechanics to know that physical spell damage, especially the damage of spells that neither have an attack bonus nor the ability to crit, will take a nosedive on high level/def targets and thus could only infer that you were using Delta Thrust on such NMs for the Plague effect given that it would otherwise be quite useless in that situation. I apologize and assure you I will not make that mistake again.

I hope I am mistaken in reading combative tone into this - it reads as though you are insulting me for clarifying my position in a way that used your quotes to thank you, and make a general obsevation about "consequence."

"To someone who" wasn't a reference to anyone but the one who said "i understand delta thrust is a good spell but i dont understand how people can act like they use it anywhere but xping and then say its worth wasting half your set points on fast cast."

And in my initial post, like others also said, I commented that combining this into one sentence was confusing, so I was addressing the points separately. "I understand delta thrust is a good spell but i dont understand how people can act like they use it anywhere but xping" influenced my comment of "clearly spelling out the spell's capabilities to someone who appeared not to fully comprehend its value." To wit, "why would you use it on anything but exp?" "Because it has great damage-to-cost ratio, and can debuff the monster."

Hopefully that clarifies any confusion.
~Anna

[Edit: I went back and removed the "First," from the beginning of a sentence you quoted. This was a legacy from a previous structure that I had not caught in the proofread, and I feared it may have cause some confusion regarding tone, subjects, etc. - the initial post also bears a note regarding the edit. I apologize if that was part of the confusion.]

[Nightfyre]

superfluous

Indeed. Perhaps a better venue for a superfluous anti-windower comment would be due next time, if that is indeed all it was. I'm sure you can understand my confusing it for a post intending to convey useful information in a thread created with the express intent of doing so.

And in my initial post, like others also said, I commented that combining this into one sentence was confusing, so I was addressing the points separately. "I understand delta thrust is a good spell but i dont understand how people can act like they use it anywhere but xping" influenced my comment of "clearly spelling out the spell's capabilities to someone who appeared not to fully comprehend its value." To wit, "why would you use it on anything but exp?" "Because it has great damage-to-cost ratio, and can debuff the monster."

Hopefully that clarifies any confusion.

Allow me to clarify for you then.

why would you use it on anything but exp?

This is the question.

Because it has great damage-to-cost ratio, and can debuff the monster.

This would be a reasonable answer, but that's not how you framed it initially.

I don't know why one wouldn't use Delta Thrust on everything

Perhaps less verbosity is in order in favor of better initial word choice if your intent is truly to clarify rather than retcon. Otherwise, carry on.

[Annahya]

I was making some time consuming edits and did not see a response. I admit that this constitutes poor forum etiquette, despite being accidental. I am not trying to counter any claims made in responses that came after my edit, and apologize for that conflict.

That said, no retconing was intended in any of my posts - save the legacy edit that I pointed out.

I did state that Delta Thrust can have its place on any mob, and I stand by that. Not every NM has the high defense you refered to in your posts, so it is out of turn to make blanket statements like "useless on NMs" and then criticize my broad language.

Indeed. Perhaps a better venue for a superfluous anti-windower comment would be due next time, if that is indeed all it was. I'm sure you can understand my confusing it for a post intending to convey useful information in a thread created with the express intent of doing so.

It was not all it was, that merely leaked into a valid point regarding the statement made by another; for which I apologized.

This would be a reasonable answer, but that's not how you framed it initially.

Isn't it?

"Delta Thrust, aside from its amazing cost-to-damage ratio, also has a chance to stick the mob with a debuff."

If you are refering to this:
"I don't know why one wouldn't use Delta Thrust on everything, including NMs, breakfast bagels, the dancefloor, and so on."

Then I reference (from the same post):
"I apologize for the semantic nitpicking, but hyperbole should be reserved for the part of the argument that makes the emotional point, not used in the part of the argument that actually discusses the details of your position, as it undermines credibility for humor that text prevents everyone from getting."

In quoting me: I don't know why one wouldn't use Delta Thrust on everything

This statement was intended to convey the feeling "Delta Thrust is so great, I would put it in my coffee!"

But, by removing "including NMs, breakfast bagels, the dancefloor, and so on" it is robbed of the context needed to do so.

Would the coffee thing have been a better joke? Perhaps, perhaps not; but I didn't think of it at the time. I had hoped that the statement regarding casting it on food, or on a dancefloor, would have carried the requisite silliness to show the nature of the sentence. Apparently, that failed.

Regardless, I do use Delta Thrust on "NMs." Do I use it on every NM? I don't think I have, but whether or not that is the case depends on the situation - but I am open to doing so. I wouldn't cast cure when I didn't need to, and I won't cast Delta Thrust when I don't need to - but I am willing to use it if the need arises.

Indeed, carry on.

I believe there was a request for people with Almace experience to give pointers on a gear/spell set?

[Prothscar]

Only filling this out because I'm bored.


CDC Build
Main: Almace
Sub: Shikargar (fire)
Ranged: X
Ammo: Thunder Sachet
Head: Ocelomeh Headpiece +1
Neck: Rancor Collar
Ear1: Moonshade Earring (Attack + TP Bonus)
Ear2: Brutal Earring
Body: Athos's Tabard
Hands: Athos's Gloves
Ring1: Epona's Ring
Ring2: Rajas Ring
Back: Atheling Mantle
Waist: Cuchulain's belt
Legs: Athos's Tights
Feet: Athos's Boots

Melee TP Build
Main: Almace
Sub: Shikargar (fire)
Ranged: X
Ammo: Mantis Eye
Head: Ocelomeh Headpiece +1
Neck: Rancor Collar
Ear1: Suppanomimi
Ear2: Brutal Earring
Body: Toci's harness
Hands: Dusk Gloves +1
Ring1: Epona's ring
Ring2: Rajas Ring
Back: Atheling mantle
Waist: Twilight belt
Legs: Athos's Tights
Feet: Athos's boots

Voidwatch Spell List:
1- Quad. Continuum
2- Delta Thrust
3- Barbed Crescent
4- Blazing Bound
5- Animating Wail
6- Mortal Ray
7- Empty Thrash
8- Heavy Strike
9- Demoralizing Roar
10- Acrid Stream
11- Fantod
12- Sudden Lunge
13- Proc
14- Proc
15- Proc
16- Proc
17- Proc
18- Proc
19- Proc
20- Proc

Traits Gained:
-Dual Wield III
-Triple Attack
-Store TP

Logic:
/WAR and these traits provide a platform for very powerful melee ability, putting BLU in around the top 5 for melee DD.

Tactics:
Kill shit. Keep temps up, Berserk, Warcry, food of some description (preferably attack, on some NMs sushi or pizza will be necessary)




As for other spell sets, there are far too many to list. BLU is very situational, there is no one spell set to rule them all. Even in Voidwatch it will sometimes be prudent to switch to magical spells such as Regurgitation, Dark orb, and Everyone's grudge rather than head on melee.

[Nightfyre]

CDC Build

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/140349

The effects of Rancor Collar and Rancor Mantle do not stack, so you have to choose between the two. This setup slightly edges out Collar + Atheling.

Melee TP Build

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/134076

Hmm. Actually, looking at that again I might change Alucinor Mitts back to Dusk +1... I had them in there initially for the sake of inventory conservation because they functioned as both TP and CDC hands at 95, but if you have Athos's Gloves they're for TPing only. Haste+4 either way. Tweak body/head as you please if you feel that you need refresh. Rancor Collar if able of course.

EDIT: Changed Alucinor Mitts to Dusk Gloves +1. They're generally the superior option and much easier to come by. If you desire the Mitts because of movespeed concerns or some other reason, like I said before, it's haste+4 either way.

Adjust each for accuracy as needed.

Spell List:

I'll just cover a few traits, spells are situational enough that anything more would be fairly narrow in scope and ultimately futile.

Accuracy Bonus if needed, fairly obvious choice. Frenetic Rip + Vanity Dive is the cheap way to set it but Disseverment's poison should not go overlooked if you're able to exploit it on anything with a decent HP pool.

Attack Bonus if not /WAR. Stick to Battle Dance + Uppercut unless you have good reason to use one of the other spells, they're the only options with decent stat benefits.

I usually set Auto-Refresh aside from Voidwatch, where temps are sufficient. Any two of Winds of Promyvion, Actinic Burst, and Plasma Charge (remember, STR+3 DEX+3) as appropriate.

Conserve MP is also very powerful if working with limited MP. This one's easy, Zephyr Mantle and Chaotic Eye all the way.

Double Attack/Triple Attack depending on subjob and points availability. I prioritize Empty Thrash and Heavy Strike.

Dual Wield... The third trait is a big step up from DW II, but at 21 points it's not cheap. You've got 3 or 4 useful choices here, set accordingly.

Benthic Typhoon and Quadrastrike are hardly bad to begin with, so you'll probably have Skillchain Bonus set by default.

Store TP is pretty powerful given CDC, and Sudden Lunge is already a great spell so 1 extra set point will hardly go amiss.

[Nightfyre]

Voidwatch Spell List:
1- Quad. Continuum
2- Delta Thrust
3- Barbed Crescent
4- Blazing Bound
5- Animating Wail
6- Mortal Ray
7- Empty Thrash
8- Heavy Strike
9- Demoralizing Roar
10- Acrid Stream
11- Fantod
12- Sudden Lunge
13- Proc
14- Proc
15- Proc
16- Proc
17- Proc
18- Proc
19- Proc
20- Proc

Traits Gained:
-Dual Wield III
-Triple Attack
-Store TP

Logic:
/WAR and these traits provide a platform for very powerful melee ability, putting BLU in around the top 5 for melee DD.

Tactics:
Kill shit. Keep temps up, Berserk, Warcry, food of some description (preferably attack, on some NMs sushi or pizza will be necessary)




As for other spell sets, there are far too many to list. BLU is very situational, there is no one spell set to rule them all. Even in Voidwatch it will sometimes be prudent to switch to magical spells such as Regurgitation, Dark orb, and Everyone's grudge rather than head on melee.

Just highlighting this real quick since it's a solid "how-to" for effectively playing BLU in Voidwatch. Focus on the big traits, use your best DD sub (not like shadows do anything regardless of Fanatic's), leave a few slots open for procs. Now that you can identify not only the element but the magic type, you should have no trouble nailing procs quickly and you won't waste time on procs you can't hit to begin with.

EDIT: He's not kidding about damage potential either. We have great accuracy and a strong DEX mod weaponskill, so critrate on CDC is still decent. With the Athos's set available now and 3/5 being best-in-slot for CDC (I've got Tabard at a narrow second currently, assuming 2%/piece), it's even stronger. Obviously your place in the parse will depend on a wide variety of factors. Maintaining a steady flow of temps and not dying are important priorities, but BLU can definitely put out respectable damage in Voidwatch given the opportunity.

[Prothscar]

On most NMs we should be capable of capping or coming close to cap on dDEX. In the set specified above, that gives us a 55% crit rate thereabouts on CDC @ 100TP, 75% with Champion's Drink, which becomes 95% at 300 and over 100% with Champion's. CDC is a very strong WS, really wish it was given a bit more credit.

BLU also maintains a somewhat unique trait of being incredibly sturdy if properly geared/buffed.

Quick question btw Night, why Moepapa/Rancor over Rancor/Atheling? The latter should be superior.