[To the Devs] make it game free to play like most Korean games

[Alhanelem]

So what you're telling me is that these two games sell shortcuts through their systems?

No, they sell power (maplestory: Highly upgraded items like I described are virtually impossible (Not literally impossible, but so statistically improbable that nobody is going to do it in your lifetime without using cash items) to attain without buying the protection scrolls and even they don't always work or help you) and content (DDO: Quest packs). You can buy items that boost stats and can be worn over regular items that also boost stats, you can buy items that randomly add new stats to stuff and can't be done any other way, you actually have to pay money to search the market for a specific item, and pay money to open a shop in it.

Also, DDO didn't start off F2P if I remember correctly.

You remember incorrectly. It was originally a retail game with a subscription only. later (after getting down to two servers) they relaunched as "DDO Unlimited" with free-to-play (And now there are many servers- the game is vastly more populated now than it was before), but you need to earn or buy content packs to be able to easily progress past a certain level. You can also get a "VIP subscription" which is just like what was had before it went free-to-play, it's simply optional now.

[Tagrineth]

Quit spreading misinformation.

Just about every successful F2P game is exactly that: Free. If you chose to spend more on it than what a game generally cost with its wrapper on that's your choice.

I've been playing League of Legends since shortly after launch and will continue to play as long as new content continues to trickle out. How much have I spent on this F2P? 50 bucks. How much have I spent on FFXI ? Well if you tally up my subscription, mules, expansions, and add-ons you are looking at about 800 bucks, maybe more. F2P is totally more expensive :/

Even the fucking example you give has paid services, but congrats on kneecapping your own argument.

[Alhanelem]

Just about every successful F2P game is exactly that: Free. If you chose to spend more on it than what a game generally cost with its wrapper on that's your choice.

Most F2P games are designed such that progressing past a certain point is difficult or in some cases impossible without paying something. League of Legends is probably one of the few free-to-play games that is truly free and real money is never a requirement or highly necessary. You can unlock everything in the game just by playing it (though it will take a long time) and the real money only buys you alternate skins for your champions (or speedier unlocks, but the earned points for unlocking stuff come at a fair rate)

[Lafaiel]

Don't forget to add the pvp with enchanted weapons that make or break a fight you get into, and to enchant that weapon or armor they have to implement a mechanic so frustrating the only way to fix it is to add an item you can buy on the store to do remove the rng chances. we need that unbalanced pvp if they do F2P, that would really seperate the men from the sheep. we need real ganking in an F2P to make it work like a korean F2P so can't leave that out.

By the way, with all your replies I bet hordecore is laughing his ass off right now.

[Catsby]

Maplestory and DDO are oldschool MTX and exactly the type of game used to villainize F2P. If you look at more recent games you will see that the ones frequently discussed basically sell you stuff that makes you look different or things you can already attain by just playing (sometimes both!).

It doesn't really matter though. FFXI still can't afford new or oldschool F2P because add-ons don't come out frequently enough and development doesn't seem to care about blinking characters.

I do want to bring up a couple points though;

Tons of games out recently or coming soon are F2P because that's the best way to attract a large audience when you are confident with your game. You are setting the barrier to entry really low and getting more people to try it out. If they think it sucks then chances are they probably wont be back again. If they think it's worth money they will pay whatever amount they want. That's how F2P games survive and it shouldn't surprise anybody when a player pays anywhere from 10 to 1000 dollars before quitting. Case and point; LoL, HoN, Crimecraft, and countless others.

I also want to bring up SWTOR because I feel like it will help people understand that subscription models are more expensive for players. That game is rumored to cost somewhere between 150 and 500 million dollars to develop. That's a shit ton of money and in order to get it all back with profits EA and lucasarts decided to go MSRP and subscription based for their game. Why? Because it's safer financially and subs cost the player more money. In order to get in you need to pay 60 bucks and after that you might find out you hate it. If not, it's going to cost you like 15 dollars a month until you do hate it. Before realizing you hate the game you will easily pay between 60 and (if the game lasts a good 5 years) 1000 dollars.

[Alhanelem]

Maplestory and DDO are oldschool MTX and exactly the type of game used to villainize F2P.

Actually, I wasn't trying to villianize F2P with DDO, only point out that there are games where the base game is free but you pay to unlock peices of content (The somewhat good part about this is you don't need to buy content you don't want to play). I actually quite enjoyed DDO and I use it as an example of a game that had a successful re-launch (when people diss FFXIV and say it has no chance to come back).

MapleStory is brutal in how it makes you want to use the cash shop however. Even compared to Nexon's other titles. Vindictus for example, has a very normal looking auction house. Anyone can use it, even if you never give nexon a dime. Maplestory is their flagship game though, so they make tradeoffs in their other games and keep MapleStory overly costly to be good in. You can't even trade on the free market without paying them a couple bucks.

Because it's safer financially and subs cost the player more money.

Really not true. While many players will play a f2p game and not pay anything, the people that spend money tend to spend a lot. Some people in MapleStory for isntance will spend hundreds of dollars to craft the perfect weapon (or in some cases, they use hacks, trade the hacked weapon and get banned, and the weapon never gets removed). This is far more than enough to make up for all the people who never give them a dime. Nexon rakes in money hand over fist with just that one game, and it has several. I actually played MS for quite some time and got a few things on the cash shop. One thing here, another there. It doesn't feel like much when you buy it- but when I added it up, it was more than the $12.95 a month I pay for FFXI.

[Runespider]

Pay £5 for the VW armor I'm 0/60+ on instead of endless grinds? Since SE can't implement a better system, sign me up!

Yes I'm joking...maybe.

[Catsby]

Really not true. While many players will play a f2p game and not pay anything, the people that spend money tend to spend a lot. Some people in MapleStory for isntance will spend hundreds of dollars to craft the perfect weapon (or in some cases, they use hacks, trade the hacked weapon and get banned, and the weapon never gets removed). This is far more than enough to make up for all the people who never give them a dime. Nexon rakes in money hand over fist with just that one game, and it has several. I actually played MS for quite some time and got a few things on the cash shop. One thing here, another there. It doesn't feel like much when you buy it- but when I added it up, it was more than the $12.95 a month I pay for FFXI.

For most people subscriptions will cost more simply because they are required to pay immediately and at intervals. If you manage to go the length of a F2P game without paying anything then good on you. If you pay 2000 dollars that's great! You are pretty much subsidizing development at that point. The most important point to consider is that, regardless of the F2P game, you are in control of how much you pay. What is being sold is usually a matter of design.

[Alhanelem]

For the average person, yes, but you have a handful of people that spend ridiculous amounts of money on the game, and these people more than make up for the ones who do not. So subscri

If you manage to go the length of a F2P game without paying anything then good on you.

I don't know anybody who has played an F2P game for as long as it has existed and didn't buy anything.

you are in control of how much you pay.

on a literal level, yes, but they have ways of compelling people to buy. In MS, for instance, if you want to participate in the economy pretty much at all, you need to pay at least $1.80 every 3 months for a shop stall. Not a whole lot, no, but they get at least this much from just about everyone who plays the game for more than a few days.

Subscriptions do yield a steady flow of cash, but it's a fixed amount. Successful F2P games make much more money per player because there's no limit on the amount of money they can get from someone.

One of their newer ways to make money is to offer programs to get free game cash- if you're willing to spend an hour on a survey or are willing to allow yourself to be bombarded with a million WIN A FREE IPOD NOW! ads and maybe some malware installs. In this way, they get money from the advertisers that provide the offers instead of the players. Thus, people who cant spend money on the game get their share of Cash, and the players that do just buy it, so they get money from even more people.

[Crawlerbasher]

No thanks.
I'm happy paying for this game.
Don't want to pay, then don't play.

For a monthly fee I get ingame support, updates and SE gets a pay check.