Welcome Back Tanaka !

[Arcon]

Sorry, Arcon, but the threads hammering the current development crew is quite justifiable. You know it. I know it. Anyone who has seen the pattern since Heroes knows it.

And I know and I agree. That's why I complain along with them. I'm not satisfied with much of what's going on. If you think that you obviously haven't read much of what I wrote on here (unless maybe over the course of the last two weeks). All I'm doing is pointing out the stupidity in other people's posts. That doesn't mean I praise SE. I praise them for the good things they do. I complain about the bad things they do. Saying they're pure evil and never listen is just as wrong as saying they're saints and always do everything right. Alright, maybe not just as wrong, but wrong nonetheless. There are a lot of legitimate complaints against SE out there. This isn't one of them. The things I criticize aren't matters of opinion, they're matters of fact. Saying "we have to bitch because SE doesn't care if we just complain normally" is what I'm trying to disprove here. I'm saying complaining does help (and I named just a handful of examples of why above). I'm also saying that bitching doesn't help and is tiring to read. I don't argue for SE, I argue against certain players' statements. Runespider is especially guilty of this, trying to mark Tanaka as the devil himself. Which is cool, since it's his opinion. But when he goes and starts to insult him and throw random (wrong) statements around, I will call him out.

I really don't get why people don't get this. Lately it seems I have to justify my actions more than actually argue against actual issues on here. Are you all in some anti-Tanaka cult together or something? And because I'm trying to say he's not the evil overlord you all have it in for me now? I honestly don't get it.

You mean all those Abyssean era patches when they seemed to get that making an MMO means actually listening to the base and responding with patches within the year? I agree, SE did listen and they got their praise for that. We're in the Voidwatch era now and as you've seen the results of player concerns has been met with nerfs and silence.

Again, how are those "Abyssea era" patches? Runespider already called them that, and I explained, in detail, why they aren't from the Abyssea era. They all happened within the last half year. I'd call that VW era. Or not? Explain why I'm wrong instead of just replaying Runespider's words.

Don't even bring up para eating items or PUP lol. That took what? Since Zilart/Aht launch to rectify? Sorry, the period to collect credit expired years ago.

Again, this is exactly what Runespider said. And I already told him, again, in detail, why that's not a real argument against it. Even if it was a problem for years, why didn't they fix it during the Abyssea era, if that was such a glorious time of communication and puppies? Why did they fix it only two weeks ago? Or is that still Abyssea era to you?

[Meyi]

And I know and I agree. That's why I complain along with them. I'm not satisfied with much of what's going on.

If you agree then stop arguing, please.

All I'm doing is pointing out the stupidity in other people's posts.

You're also being a condescending jerk when you do it. Cut it out. There's a difference between pointing out the flaws in someone's argument and being an ass.

But when he goes and starts to insult him and throw random (wrong) statements around, I will call him out.

At least do it maturely.

I really don't get why people don't get this. Lately it seems I have to justify my actions more than actually argue against actual issues on here. Are you all in some anti-Tanaka cult together or something? And because I'm trying to say he's not the evil overlord you all have it in for me now? I honestly don't get it.

No, we're just anti-rudeness. :/ I don't know Tanaka well enough to judge his personality or morale and therefore I refrain from judging him. I think the majority of people on this board are angry because they feel they are being ignored by the very people who are supposed to be listening to them. We are their paying customers, and they should be trying to please at least 51% of us.

The only reason we have it out for you is because of your tactless attacks. Nobody cares if you tell it from the developer's point of view -- I actually think that's quite charming and balanced. However, the way you go about presenting your side is disgusting and pisses us off.

Again, how are those "Abyssea era" patches? Runespider already called them that, and I explained, in detail, why they aren't from the Abyssea era. They all happened within the last half year. I'd call that VW era. Or not? Explain why I'm wrong instead of just replaying Runespider's words.

I say no because Abyssea was still huge just six months ago. Six months ago was late June. Abyssea was pretty huge even into September. I remember when I quit for college classes around October/November everyone was still doing Abyssea nonstop, with Voidwatch just starting to creep into the picture. When I came back in late November/early December, Voidwatch had become the new thing and Abyssea, while it's still being played in today, has lost its throne.

So no I'd say it mostly happened during the Abyssea era. The ???s were for Abyssea NMs, you know.

[Potyhoty]

I think the majority of people on this board are angry because they feel they are being ignored by the very people who are supposed to be listening to them. We are their paying customers, and they should be trying to please at least 51% of us.

Not that you asked me, but I would add that I feel it's deeply arrogant for this person or that person to assume they're in that 51% just because they're right and a bunch of people IN THEIR SUBCOMMUNITY (aka the forums) agree with them. They may well be, of course, but in my view even that doesn't justify the vitriol they're spewing.

Franky we tried the wait and see and the postive feed back. Now its time they know how digusted we are with them. They as a comapny need to be punished which looking at thier recent decline in sells they are feeling the pain but are just to stuck in their ways to change.

Yeah, that's certainly a plausible explanation. There are others, though, but I'm not talking politics on here.

Also its is the whole player base that is pissed look at the jps they saying the same things as us.

*headdesk* False. The people on the forums, any forums, JP or NA or EU or all together, are NOT the whole player base.

The sells in Japan of FF13-2 only hit about 500k the first week while 13 did twice that on the first day. FF14 has around 30k player and its free. There is no hope for that game its is DEAD yet they will keep throwing the money we pay for FF11 at it.

Yeah, there was a substantial contigent of people who didn't like FFXIII. Most of my friends didn't, I'm kinda lukewarm on it myself. But hype sold FFXIII, not content.

And you don't know FFXIV is dead. I don't know it's dead. Stop armchair CEOing, it makes you look like an idiot. Yeah, it probably is, but that's not your call, and this kind of behavior helps nothing.

People are pisssed cause we are still paying the same price we were when we were getting more content. Comapnies don't listen to nice well happy time compaints they listen when the outrage becomes defaning and they can't look the other way

And you think a vocal minority getting REALLY pissy on feedback forums = "outrage"? No, you have to be able to speak for the people NOT on the forums, at least most of them. How do you intend to do that? Because you don't have the credentials to claim to know what they want. None of us do.

And there are plenty of companies that listen to nice happy time complaints. Those complaints, though, actually have to reflect a majority of the user base. If that isn't there, it doesn't really matter what the complaints sound like, they will (usually) be given attention proportional to the number of people complaining, which all in all, isn't that large, despite what all of you seem to think.

Now, SE might not work that way, but most companies do. Point is, it's incredibly arrogant to say "Well, most of the people on the forums feel this way, therefore we ARE the majority of the player base!". No, you're not.

Besides, they do things differently in Japan, you know? Even the bottom line often isn't enough over there, not if they would lose more face in the eyes of their investors (NOT the paying public) by caving than they would by staying the course. And outrage from a vocal minority of the player base, no matter how right it is, =/= losing face in the eyes of their investors.

[Arcon]

[Personal criticism]

I've been told there's an ignore button somewhere on here. That might be the best option for dealing with me if my posts are disgusting to read for you. I already mentioned (in another thread, I believe), that I'm simply an eye-for-an-eye kinda guy. If someone is being respectful, I'll always be respectful back to them. If someone is being rude and disgusting, I have no problem with being rude and disgusting back to them. And while that won't win me a popularity contest on here it's worth my personal satisfaction for upsetting the target person while doing so. I won't change that way. If you have trouble with that, blacklist me or, if I go overboard with it, report me. I have no desire to show my respect to people who don't deserve it.

I say no because Abyssea was still huge just six months ago. Six months ago was late June. Abyssea was pretty huge even into September. I remember when I quit for college classes around October/November everyone was still doing Abyssea nonstop, with Voidwatch just starting to creep into the picture. When I came back in late November/early December, Voidwatch had become the new thing and Abyssea, while it's still being played in today, has lost its throne.

So no I'd say it mostly happened during the Abyssea era. The ???s were for Abyssea NMs, you know.

That's not an indication of anything. They can fix content way outside of its respective era. They recently adjusted kings and KS99, I'm sure you wouldn't call that "kings era" either, because it was pretty much dead already by then. But ok, it was Abyssea era. Let's leave it at that. Let's say September was also Abyssea era. That's going by your post of what was most popular back then, even though I'd personally disagree, since I feel like the "era" of Abyssea was largely over by March. After that people just had nowhere else to go for a while.

So if September was still Abyssea era, how can you complain about SE not listening anymore when you barely gave them one month to respond (and even ignoring the other examples I provided, that showed they still implemented player feedback this very update)? All those positive changes (that, supposedly, happened in the Abyssea era) took up to a year to implement. Now they can't get two months?

This is what I meant. I won't say the development team are saints. I'm not defending them. I know they're slow and they largely do what they want. But the facts indicate it's always been that way. Abyssea didn't improve them in any way in that regard. There's a slew of valid criticism about the development team, and saying they're slow and/or ignoring the playerbase is valid too. What is wrong is putting the blame on Tanaka (or anyone in particular, because no one has any clue what goes on at SE headquarters) and saying that he ruined playerbase communication when it used to be so great. That's just a weak argument.

[Meyi]

[Response to personal criticism]

I'd rather not ignore you because I like reading what every member has to contribute, even if I disagree with it or find it ridiculous. You asked why people were attacking you and I explained to you why they do that. As long as you're aware of the potential attitude stirring people up in a frenzy to which they respond with bitterness, then you have the right to go forth. But as someone from the outside looking in I figured you at least deserved to know why.

That's not an indication of anything. They can fix content way outside of its respective era. They recently adjusted kings and KS99, I'm sure you wouldn't call that "kings era" either, because it was pretty much dead already by then. But ok, it was Abyssea era. Let's leave it at that. Let's say September was also Abyssea era. That's going by your post of what was most popular back then, even though I'd personally disagree, since I feel like the "era" of Abyssea was largely over by March. After that people just had nowhere else to go for a while.

So if September was still Abyssea era, how can you complain about SE not listening anymore when you barely gave them one month to respond (and even ignoring the other examples I provided, that showed they still implemented player feedback this very update)? All those positive changes (that, supposedly, happened in the Abyssea era) took up to a year to implement. Now they can't get two months?

I agree kings was out of kings era. I'm not judging eras by updated content but by player popularity. And are you sure it had peaked by March? The devastating tsunami hit mid March and servers were down.

I dunno, it seemed really popular all summer long on Bismarck. Perhaps different servers and different playstyles? I didn't collect most of my +2s until late August/early September, just a little before I took a couple month break. But maybe I'm one of the laggers who was playing catch up. To me it seems like Abyssea era lasted until at least the end of summer.

As for devs responding in a rational time I'm not angry at them. I think if they provided some kind of "Hey we heard you and we'll consider it!" note in suggested topics we'd feel more satisfied. There are many ways to prove that they are listening other than just inserting quick updates to fix problems.

One great way to show they're listening is to not implement things several official board members are voicing concerns against.

I agree that blaming one individual for the fall of a game is ridiculous... unless he actually is the source. I don't know enough about him or about the private matters of Square Enix. But I do know they are Japanese and knowing a bit about Japanese culture can make understanding their actions a lot easier.