Seriously, VW loot system..come on.

[Greatguardian]

That's my first time hearing this. I find it hard to believe SE would do something that stupid. How exactly does that work?

It's a server load saving measure, I'd imagine. Instead of asking the server to generate tons of random numbers (since people /random and lot all the time), your client just sends a ping to the server and the server sends a number back based on when that ping is received. That time is just a measure of the Vanadiel Minute. Each VD Minute can be split 1000 ways. If the server receives your ping at the very start of a new VD minute, you'll roll a 999. If the server receives your ping at the end of a VD minute, you roll a 0. Everything in between is returned linearly.

There's slight variation based on internet connection speed (speed of light isn't instant, etc), since the number returned is based on when the server receives the ping rather than when the ping is sent, but that's very minor in most cases unless you're living in a country with fairly poor network infrastructure.

This was all figured out years ago. It's why you can also repeatedly generate the same number (or extremely close to it, variations due to network travel) if you set up a script to /random at set intervals corresponding to the length of a VD minute.

It takes a bit of skill to pull off, so I'm not really worried about people figuring it out. I rarely ever use this trick, it's generally not worth the effort. It's neat to know, though. I think it's fairly ingenious from an efficiency standpoint.

[Runespider]

Doubtful it's a true random (in SE's case), and closer to pseudo random.

The way I assumed it worked was it did a random (using the ingame random system with different end-number and hidden from chat) between 1~5 and if it rolled a 1 you get a HQ slot to load. Then it did a random again betwen 1~200 and if you get a 1 it loads the HQ item, if you get 2~10 you get the 2nd item, if you get a 10~50 you get the 3rd item, if you get a 50~200 it loads a plate....etc depending on number of possible HQ drops.

As for server load, there aren't that many people doing VW at once to make it an issue.

[Arcon]

It's a server load saving measure, I'd imagine. Instead of asking the server to generate tons of random numbers (since people /random and lot all the time), your client just sends a ping to the server and the server sends a number back based on when that ping is received. That time is just a measure of the Vanadiel Minute. Each VD Minute can be split 1000 ways. If the server receives your ping at the very start of a new VD minute, you'll roll a 999. If the server receives your ping at the end of a VD minute, you roll a 0. Everything in between is returned linearly.

I'm guessing they changed that then. I'm still having a hard time believing it ever worked like this. I just did a test run and it received /random lots pretty evenly distributed from 0 to 999. Even if that's all due to connection lag (which should be minmal with a fast and responsive wired broadband connection like mine), it still means there's no way to influence it manually.

I think it's fairly ingenious from an efficiency standpoint.

Not sure if I'd call it ingenious. If they indeed implemented a linearly cycling system like that it should simply be based on milliseconds with a predetermined (random) permutation, the connection lag would still make it impossible to time it properly and it would be, for all intents and purposes, random. To be ingenious it should be something that people couldn't influence manually. And I don't think lotting occurs often enough for it to be an issue anyway.

[Greatguardian]

I haven't tried it in a while, but it definitely worked for a long time unless they ninja'd it more recently. I doubt they'd have any real reason to, but who knows.

I may try and dig up the original BG findings thread, but that was years ago and probably lost in one of the server moves.

[SpankWustler]

I honestly would not be shocked if Voidwatch uses an algorithm based off of a character's name when determining pyxis contents, given the "on or off" drop rates that are reported. I'd be even less shocked if it was designed that way because a programmer's cat died the day previous and he wanted to do something truly malevolent to a vast number of people.

[Nightfyre]

But it's not really random is it? Can computers even technically do random?

They can with the proper equipment, but that's more for high-security applications. I'd expect SE to use low-security pseudorandom algorithms instead. The difference is generally academic unless we're actually able to exploit the pseudorandom algorithms (in such a case as GG mentioned, or even out of stronger generators in certain environments).

Anyway yes, random drops can be "balanced". In this case, I would propose that balance corresponds to a reasonable expectation that you will obtain the drop by putting in a certain amount of effort. Obviously a non-100% value means we can't expect to get rewards within a reasonable timeframe every time (this is where considerations for a point system would come in to play), but you can still estimate an effort:reward ratio for an average case and adjust accordingly.

[leorez]

not sure if anyone mentioned it (too many pages to go through) but one of the few things 14 had that was nice was the fact that any drop you had could be passed to other players. I never liked having to deal with months of crap to get 1 decent drop from a shells point system, so i like that everyone always gets something, but letting people at least pass a reward sound good enough for shells and friends to make sure people they want to get something do, but not forcing pick up players or w/e to deal with fighting over the pool.

[Runespider]

not sure if anyone mentioned it (too many pages to go through) but one of the few things 14 had that was nice was the fact that any drop you had could be passed to other players.

In WoW during the raid you can trade R/E items to others, after the raid ends you can't. Square won't do it and we know why but that is an awesome system.

[GarudaEban]

My vote would be for SE to add some sort of broker. A new tenshodo npc who would (for a small fee) exchange rare/ex voidwatch items of equivalent rarity (same tiers, for instance) between two consenting players. It wouldn't solve the problem of people going forever and getting nothing, but at least it would help with the issue of helping players get items they desire more easily, rather than those they can't use.

[Arcon]

My vote would be for SE to add some sort of broker. A new tenshodo npc who would (for a small fee) exchange rare/ex voidwatch items of equivalent rarity (same tiers, for instance) between two consenting players. It wouldn't solve the problem of people going forever and getting nothing, but at least it would help with the issue of helping players get items they desire more easily, rather than those they can't use.

I agree that it would be a start, but it also still wouldn't solve the issue of people getting the same drops over and over again, not being able to trade them to others. And it would still allow people to sell drops (which is precisely what I think SE wanted to prevent with this), if they don't have them themselves (which may be an issue for some people, but not for RMT, for example) however without the benefit of doing it on the fly, and without any security. If they did implement that, you'd either have to receive the item first or pay the gil first, you can't do it simultaneously like if the items weren't exclusive, in which case they could be traded or sold in various ways.