Seriously, VW loot system..come on.

[Camate]

Howdy!

I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.

The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:

• The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
• It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
• An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping

To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.

In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.

Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
　
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.

I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content.

We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.

In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.

We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.

In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.

Please let us know what you think.

[Dreamin]

Howdy!

I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.

The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:

• The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
• It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
• An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping

To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.

In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.

Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
　
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.



We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.

In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.

We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.

In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.

Please let us know what you think.

You're still NOT hearing what most people are saying. That is, Proc'ing for Weakness is NOT an issue. It's clear for those that are willing to spend the time in doing VW, getting cells and stones are not an issues. The BIG ISSUE that most players agreed here is the the current Loot System. This Insanely Random Drop matter is making it such that you have players who has been doing the same NM for several hundred times each time with full LIGHTS and TH and still getting only Logs and Ores.

Here are some suggestions:
1. Make it so that the player who has already received the RA/EX don't ever get it again. Items in the chest are generated on the server side already so it would not be hard at all to implement this. In this case, when an RA/EX that were supposed to go to the chest that a player has already acquired, make it so that it would go to another player.

or

2. Another idea is to instead of making it so that RA/EX item can only ever go to one person. Make it so that ANY item can be put into a community pool. So when a player received another RA/EX item, he can place it into a community pool where anyone that was in the alliance when the NM was popped can lot on them. This way, people who dc'ed mid fight can still possibly lot on this item. [This was one of the idea that has been expressed in here before].

or

3. Give us some sort of point system where after perhaps 100 or 200x successful killing of the same NM, you can choose to select 1 RA/EX item from his drop list. This will give the event the longevity that will be needed but at the same time still gives HOPE to the players that there will be light at the end of all their hard work. So worst case for any player if they're truly unlucky, after 100 or 200x fight of the same NM, they would at least received something in return. [Feel free to change number of successful fight from 100 or 200 to something that is reasonable. 100-200 is reasonable whereas 1500 would not be reasonable].


Other ideas?

[Taint2]

Howdy!

Please let us know what you think.

VW is a good event, the loot system is terrible. That is 100% of the issue.

The same mobs get killed over and over because thats what it takes to get the drop you want. Keggan was fun the first 30-40 times, the last 100+ have been a grind, I would have much rather been fighting other VW mobs.

As more content is added it will be harder and harder to get VW items or keep people interested in VW. Especially if it is going to take 200+ kills to get some items. I have 1000 VW kills under my belt and one body drop and its Anhur Robe something I'll never get to use.

If the loot system was better people would explore the mobs that are killed only for advancement reasons, until then the same few mobs will get all the attention.

Quick fixes: Raise the cap on Rubi lights (greater chance at a decent drop), lower the cool down for new stones.

[SpankWustler]

Please let us know what you think.

Almost every problem with Voidwatch that has been mentioned, from popular or unpopular monsters to players using procs mainly for the drop-related bonuses, starts and ends with one thing. Extremely low drop rates that are further lowered by the "totally random thing is totally random" distribution system.

People fight the same monster 600 times because it is entirely possible to go 0/600 on a very desired drop. People fight a different monster only a half-dozen times because fighting the other thing 600 times has taken a heavy toll on their supply of Voidstones. It's not that some horrible monsters are unloved while others are the object of adventurers' pointy affections; it's much more a matter of limited resources due to forced repetition of fights.

People use procs to affect drop-rate and the number of drops in hopes that something desired will, against all odds, actually drop. Like a man on death row praying to the admittedly made-up deity that is the Flying Spaghetti Monster to wrap it's pasta-tendrils of love around his midriff and remove him from that dark cell and spare him his terrible fate, people will try anything when faced with what's effectively a 0.25%-0.75% drop rate.

The personal chest system isn't a bad idea in and of itself, but combined with punishingly low drop rates even with capped lights, the extra level of complete randomness it adds can be infuriating. Nine-tenths of the whacky things that players do in Voidwatch comes from being infuriated by the lack of drops and trying (and failing!) to obtain a drop in spite of it.

I literally can not imagine any way to make the drop-rates for desired items worse, so any change would be a welcome one. Open your minds and follow your hearts and implement whatever nutty thing you want. Even something ridiculous such as making logs edible, with a food effect of "Red Light +1000%" to "Red Light +3000%" depending on the quality of log eaten, would be a huge boon.

That said, lowering AoE damage or making it easier to cap lights aren't bad changes by any means. It just feels like such changes avoid the core issue.

[Helel]

Howdy!

I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.

The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:

• The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
• It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
• An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping

To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.

In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.

Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
　
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.



We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.

In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.

We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.

In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.

Please let us know what you think.

...What? Alright uh, somebody needs to fill me in here. Since when is using your strongest job a bad thing? Isn't the whole reason it's your strongest job because you like to use it?. Why would anyone want to play a weaker job because they're forced to proc crap? This seems absolutely absurd to me and I literally just yelled at my computer after reading this. There's a whole topic on getting rid of proc systems! What makes you think people want this?

Get rid of the need to proc on higher tiers (to stay alive), and let people come the jobs that they want to for once (since pre-abyssea...).

[Dantedmc]

...What? Alright uh, somebody needs to fill me in here. Since when is using your strongest job a bad thing? Isn't the whole reason it's your strongest job because you like to use it?. Why would anyone want to play a weaker job because they're forced to proc crap? This seems absolutely absurd to me and I literally just yelled at my computer after reading this. There's a whole topic on getting rid of proc systems! What makes you think people want this?

Get rid of the need to proc on higher tiers (to stay alive), and let people come the jobs that they want to for once (since pre-abyssea...).

It won't be "your strongest job that you like to use". It will be the jobs that kill the fastest and whms on all but the toughest nms that actually require procs. Atleast right now a majority of jobs are involved in the event.

[Nightfyre]

In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available.

No. No no no no no.

That is fundamentally wrong. It is not necessary to throw a tedious bandaid on a gaping wound in game design. If anything your highest priority, your necessary adjustment, should be fixing the fact that such imbalances in job choice exist to begin with. Otherwise you just end up making roundabout adjustments to all your content that do technically fix the issue but often not in such a way that makes the jobs that have been made artificially desirable fun to play in said content. The backlash from "balanced" procing jobs (speaking of which, notice how they're specifically referred to as "procing jobs" by the community - should make it painfully obvious that this is the only reason they're getting invites and as such they're expected to focus on procs rather than actually playing their job) should have clued the devs in to this months ago.

Spamming arbitrary triggers is NOT ENJOYABLE. I don't know how I can make that any clearer. It was tolerable in Abyssea because you only had to deal with a maximum of three procs per kill with a very limited pool of triggers to draw from (though still annoying in that my job choice was dictated by procs as much as job suitability - guess why I hardly ever play BLU when farming Abyssea?), now it's almost unbearable. If anything, the procs system should be removed entirely and temp item reception/mob mechanics redesigned from the ground up to compensate. A lot of work? Yes, but the low droprates of Voidwatch combined with the inability to pass drops to other members dictates that anybody wanting rare drops will also be putting in a lot of work.

[Tile]

Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.

I got a one, Distroy chest without obtaining any items after looking in it. doing so would increase the low % of getting a rare item and lower the % of getting logs etc. let people keep doing this for as many times as they want, with no cap on how high it goes, only to reset after you take a item from the chest. so after around 20 fights the chance for the super weapons and bodies are no longer 1% but 50%

that way doing the fight over and over again will be helping you rather then just making people get madder.

[ManaKing]

I think you should eliminate the situation where you have 'stronger jobs'. What is the point of talking about balance if you are going to leave the jobs unbalanced. It's very contradictory. People would bring what they like to play if whatever they liked to play was actually as powerful as everything else in one fashion on another. Seems relatively blunt and simple, but you should really take a second to realize why this is so important. It may affect the future of your game.

Also, the ability to give my lucky drops to people would be appreciated. I received a deluxe animator after 3 runs of a mob. I can't just hand it to my friend who is a dedicated PUP. Do you have any idea how much of a dick that makes me feel? 'Oh sorry buddy, this loot system is just going to rub how lucky I am in your face and there is nothing I can do about it.' I am legitimately a social and caring individual who plays with several hard working friends. It's really not cool that I can't give things I don't want to people that do want them. That is part of the point of team work, is helping each other out.

[Elanabelle]

To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.

Agreed.

Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.

　
Please move "Loot distribution" to the very top of your "priority" list, and address that first and foremost ... and move all other "planned adjustments" down the list.

In order to "fix" the Voidwatch loot distribution system, please implement any, or all, of the following:

1. Allow players to add unwanted Voidwatch loot to alliance's Treasure Pool,

OR

2. Increase the chances/rate of uncommon highly-desired Voidwatch loot from the "personal treasure chest" when the player has maxed/capped Blue and Red alignment,

OR

3. Remove the "Ex" tag from Voidwatch loot,

OR

4. Implement a "points" system for acquiring Voidwatch Rare/Ex loot, similar to how Einherjar loot is purchased using Therion Ichor.

In addition, please program the Treasure Pool so that if an individual already has a Rare/Ex item, s/he can not receive the SAME Rare/Ex item again in the future.