Seriously, VW loot system..come on.

[FrankReynolds]

Too long

It's all good to say it's gonna get better later, when later doesn't equal a year or two. People have been complaining about the same thing for months.

Right now it's like we're sitting in the stall right next to the Devs begging for some toilet paper, but they just keep offering to let us smell the perfume adds, and reading us uplifting stories from their issue of Oprah Magazine. That does't really help our situation.

When you see content laying on the ground bleeding out, you don't give it a haircut and a shave before you tend to the wound. We all fully understand that they "are discussing things". The time for discussion has long past.

Telling people they can't voice their opinions will always have exactly the opposite effect. If you really want players to stop telling off the devs, then do what the devs do. Ignore their questions, and derail the thread with posts about things that no one brought up.

[Frost]

Hmmm... Such a Zen moment in my head. I don't think I've ever disagreed with something someone's said, but agreed with the person saying it... (think about that for a while...)

Anyways.

To the comment that "poorly geared folks can be good"; or "people are being excluded because they are not 'best geared'."

First, since you appreciate analogies: If I am hiring a botanist to create a new stain of drought-resistant wheat for use in impoverished countries. Would I be wrong in being an elitist if I chose the guy with a couple degrees in Botany, Biology, Horticulture, Genetics, and has done work in the field, and has his own lab? Or the Pot-smoking hippy that knows a thing or two about growing plants in a basement?

Keep in mind it's MY reputation, and my funding and success of the venture rests on my decisions.

To relate that into general game terms... (and as someone has already pointed out) I have, as a leader, the luxury of patience. If I shout for Job "X", and someone in full perle (Pronounced: "PERIL") asks to join, I can assure you, if I shout just a little longer something better will come.

But that's not all.

Certain jobs, and certain specific shouts determine the success of a run.

Allow me to illustrate this point a little; you have two shouts:

"Voidwatch (Jeuno) T6 (Buburimu Peninsula) (Do you need it?). 6/18 (Anything) (welcome)"

"Voidwatch: Botulus Rex, 1/2 Ukon War, 2/4 Thundaja Blm, Need Wildfire Cors and Healers/Trigger jobs 6/18.

There's a couple things going on here:

1) The first one is letting anyone join.
2) The first one gives no indication there's a plan.
3) The first one through it's awkward use of Auto-Translate shows Communication might not be their priority.
4) The second one is showing signs of a currently working/acceptable strategy.
5) The specifics in the second shout show there's something specific about the Wars, either:
>> The Wars are there for high damage output.
>> The Wars need a certain degree of dedication/competence with the Warrior job.
6) The second shout shows there's been progress made in acquiring the jobs the leader thinks they need.

While I don't disagree that Voidwatch should be toned down a tad and the bar should be set at the "Average Player" I do take exception that the "Average Player" doesn't have at least one job that they can gear properly (I.E. No Perle, No Pink, etc...).

Requesting an Ochain or Aegis Paladin is not unreasonable. Considering how few good Paladins there are, the ones that are at least 'decent' have one or the other. The Good ones have both generally. Requesting one specifically shows not only YOUR GROUP, current members and future ones, that you're taking this seriously, but it sends a signal to the PALADINS that YOU are taking it seriously, upping the chances of getting a good one. You know what it does for bad paladins? It pisses them off. You know what a pissed off Paladin does? It shouts in Jeuno and on forums about "Elitism". You know what that does? You ever hear the old phrase: "Give em enough rope, and they'll hang themselves"?

And as to the drops...

Sure, you're right, clechè #2131225: "You can please some of the people, some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time."

And there's a general divide on what people want that I think you're getting blurred. For every one person asking for an increase in drop rates, there's between eight to ten asking for "Add to Treasure Pool". They are not the same thing. Your insinuation that we don't think these things through is both kinda insulting and arrogant, as well as mildly ironic.

If you added "Add to Treasure Pool" the following happens:

>> When you get an item, congratulations you got the item, now you get a choice. It's STILL in YOUR chest it is YOUR item. But now IT'S YOUR CHOICE.

>> When you get another item you already have, you can share it or keep it if you want to spite the group. IT'S YOUR CHOICE.

>> If you're joining a shout group and they are 'selling' you the item and it drops in your chest, you're set, you have to be in the alliance either way. If it doesn't drop in your chest and you want to spend YOUR GIL on someone else's, IT'S YOUR CHOICE.

>> The worse thing that can happen happens in both cases: It doesn't Drop.

Crafters will still craft, for some reason people STILL buy NQ gear... Prices may go down a bit, but that helps the crafters' buyers. (There's two sides to that economic coin, supply, demand, etc...)

And in theory...

The drop rate on the item hasn't changed right???

[Nynja]

Requesting an Ochain or Aegis Paladin is not unreasonable. Considering how few good Paladins there are, the ones that are at least 'decent' have one or the other. The Good ones have both generally. Requesting one specifically shows not only YOUR GROUP, current members and future ones, that you're taking this seriously, but it sends a signal to the PALADINS that YOU are taking it seriously, upping the chances of getting a good one.

I have an aegis and my pld sucks...

[Doombringer]

gonna have to agree with frost here.

if i'm doing it with randoms, it means i want the thing. so the thing would not get thrown into the community pool. if i were in a situation where i would throw the thing into the pool, i just wouldn't go with the randoms.

if i'm going with my linkshell, then it hardly matters. i'll just go cuz that's what the linkshell is doing. if i get some thing i want, super good. if i get some thing i don't want, or i already have.. is it really so terrible that i might toss it to a ls-mate?
like "oh no, that nin who's tanking the apademaks for my almace while his own kannagi is still lvl 85 might get whatever the thing is sooner because i got it and don't need it"
sounds like quid pro quo to me. i'd love the opportunity to pass off some rare body piece i'll never use. it's better than putting it in my storage with all my other trophies... hell, i'd prolly do that for a stranger. (assuming i was already there and the thing dropped.. dunno why i would go out there for a stranger)


also, i take issue with this notion that a high droprate is a terrible thing. people talk about how there "will be" no content if we can donate rare/ex voidwatch drops.. i submit, that forcing the same fight to be repeated 300 times, is not the same as having 300 times as much content. yah... think about that one..

[Frost]

OK fine let me put it this way since it's a question that doesn't seem to get asked very often...

What's wrong with getting something in under 20 fights?

Have we seriously gotten to the point in FFXI where people are actually saying a 5% drop rate is "too much"?

[Tamoa]

Chances that you get more than 10 ra/ex item in loot pool after one single fight, is next to non-existant. And if there's 2 Toci's Harness (yearightlol) and 8 Aliyat Chakrams in the pool already, and you've got a chakram that you don't want aswell - you know, just don't add it to the pool?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Aha, aha, ahahahaha

Please, do call me when you get 60 rare r/e from a single VW run... ever... If you're lucky you might see 20 of the common r/e drop...

[Kristal]

Aha, aha, ahahahaha

Please, do call me when you get 60 rare r/e from a single VW run... ever... If you're lucky you might see 20 of the common r/e drop...

What I described was a worst case situation that SE would not allow to happen. The fact that it CAN happen is enough to not give the option to allow it in the first place.

It's obvious SE wants this stuff to be rare and time consuming, asking for it to drop like candy is not going to work.
It's that christmas present you always wanted for years, not a grocery list item...

[Neisan_Quetz]

What I described was a worst case situation that SE would not allow to happen. The fact that it CAN happen is enough to not give the option to allow it in the first place.

It's obvious SE wants this stuff to be rare and time consuming, asking for it to drop like candy is not going to work.
It's that christmas present you always wanted for years, not a grocery list item...

You seem to be under the assumption the drop rates for these items is higher than they actually are. Even with an add to pool option, rare drops from VW still won't 'drop like candy' and people won't be capping in a matter of days. It just means people getting multiple rare drops will stop sending them to the void if they feel generous, or they can still spite the group and destroy it anyway.

[Kitkat]

What I described was a worst case situation that SE would not allow to happen. The fact that it CAN happen is enough to not give the option to allow it in the first place.

It's obvious SE wants this stuff to be rare and time consuming, asking for it to drop like candy is not going to work.
It's that christmas present you always wanted for years, not a grocery list item...

I'm a little lost here, as I'm sure anyone who does VWNM constantly would be too. You're describing a worst case scenario that with current drop rates is absolutely impossible. Then you are using this as a tool to argue against allowing an add to pool option? I'd like to know what realm of possibility exist where that many of the items (most desired gear/weapons) will drop at such a rate that people will wear out the content and have nothing left to do.

The only way this would even happen is if, not only did they allow you to add to the pool, but they increased the drop rate and made TH effect the chest. This isn't what people are asking for all at once. People are asking for a change within the possibilities listed to make the drop rate accurate that doesn't have negative impacts at the same time, or feel like it is made to extend time cause they don't have the man power to constantly add good content to the game while providing fixes and balances. It's and either/or, not an all and now.

If TH affects the lights above and beyond the cap this is only a minor increase on an already horrible drop rate. The catch 22 on this is that if nothing else changes (aka check system or add to pool option) then all this is really doing is upping the chance the item still goes to someone who already has it for the 3rd or 4th time in a row.

If instead they add a check system, this does not mean they will automatically instate an additional function to the chest propagation that it cycles to someone else instead. Knowing SE it will instead just act like that one individual killed the NM solo. That was the 1/x chance it would pop in a chest per fight and just because that person already had it they instead got another log while everyone else in the alliance rolled a 0/x chance to get it.

There is always the option that if they give an "Add to pool" option with a "Destroy item" option, this means it will do something that Abyssea did a wonderful job of undoing: bring people back into a grouped community with LS structure. Face it, while VWNM does a great job of bringing random people together there is always 1-4, if not more, you would rather not have to deal with in that group. This means you're more than likely to do 1 of 2 things: destroy the item or drop yours just to obtain it again just to remove the chance they might get it. Yes, my glass is half empty so people are spiteful enough to do this. Where as the LS will be more inclined to help other members, but I'm sure the spitefulness will still exist all the same. No LS is perfect.

Knowing SE they would more than likely just rather increase the drop rate, plain and simple while adding destroy item option. Downside being it is only an artificial increase since it doesn't fix the problem that people are getting multiple of the desired items. It then only makes the increase look like it should have been in the first place had they kept the current loot distribution and just added a rare/ex check instead with a roll over, but still not add to pool option. The primary difference from now being you'll see more "hey....I got XXX item again......5th time, sorry everyone."

Personally I wouldn't want a straight out drop increase to the base. I would mostly prefer they add a check system with possible roll over to another individual if anything so that everyone is really getting a fair chance at the item. The current system doesn't do this because only a few are getting the item multiple times while others will go days/weeks without ever seeing the body in their chest, but see someone say they got it again. SE is only tossing dirt in these peoples faces by adding a "destroy item" option instead of fixing the primary gripe about the loot distribution as it currently stands.