Seriously, VW loot system..come on.

[Neisan_Quetz]

What the fuck am I reading? A player wearing bad gear sucks, period. A player with good gear that doesn't know how to use it sucks, period. Their is no difference between them, neither knows wtf they're doing.

There are bad players with Ukon/Brovura, but there are no good players fulltiming perle or full Emp+2.

[Dreamin]

I dont think zinato understood what people are complainting here. We're complaining that SE is using resources working on stuff on VW that no one competent enough are having problems such as AOE death and lights capping. The issues are with the insane drop system that we have. I'm in the neighborhood of 0/200-0/300 on Pil and Qilin EACH. This Sat, I did Qilin and guess what I got 3/4 Neck Pieces (AGAIN) while there are people there that would/could use the neck pieces. But no, I ended up having to run away so the chest will despawn. Likewise on that same run, the same person got 2 boots (AGAIN). And I would have loved to pick up a pair myself.

The point is that these aren't hard fight at all. The AOE isn't an issue, capping lights isn't an issue. The ONLY issues are these insane drop. Camata seems to understands this, but for whatever reason, the DEV doesn't. Or they understands but they refuses to fix the damn system. People has asked for alternatives such as some sort of point system so that if you win let say 500 fight on the same NM, you should be able to BUY one of those ra/ex drop that you want. As it is now, lots of ppl on my server dont bother doing VW anymore because they have gone beyond 0/500+ without seeing any of the ra/ex that they wanted.

Failed drop system is going to be the failure of VW. Not because of AOE and capping Lights.

As a side note, as Neisan_Quetz said, Good Players will be good regardless whether they have Emp/Relic/Mystic or not. But Bad Players will always sux regardless of how easy SE makes the game to be. Do you know how many people I see walking around with full white/pink gears with Emp+2 and Relics now a day?

[Damane]

I dont think zinato understood what people are complainting here. We're complaining that SE is using resources working on stuff on VW that no one competent enough are having problems such as AOE death and lights capping. The issues are with the insane drop system that we have. I'm in the neighborhood of 0/200-0/300 on Pil and Qilin EACH. This Sat, I did Qilin and guess what I got 3/4 Neck Pieces (AGAIN) while there are people there that would/could use the neck pieces. But no, I ended up having to run away so the chest will despawn. Likewise on that same run, the same person got 2 boots (AGAIN). And I would have loved to pick up a pair myself.

The point is that these aren't hard fight at all. The AOE isn't an issue, capping lights isn't an issue. The ONLY issues are these insane drop. Camata seems to understands this, but for whatever reason, the DEV doesn't. Or they understands but they refuses to fix the damn system. People has asked for alternatives such as some sort of point system so that if you win let say 500 fight on the same NM, you should be able to BUY one of those ra/ex drop that you want. As it is now, lots of ppl on my server dont bother doing VW anymore because they have gone beyond 0/500+ without seeing any of the ra/ex that they wanted.

Failed drop system is going to be the failure of VW. Not because of AOE and capping Lights.

As a side note, as Neisan_Quetz said, Good Players will be good regardless whether they have Emp/Relic/Mystic or not. But Bad Players will always sux regardless of how easy SE makes the game to be. Do you know how many people I see walking around with full white/pink gears with Emp+2 and Relics now a day?

This sooo much this. While I got some stuff I wanted form VW (I consider myself lucky). I am out of voidstones... and I did VW since the Release. I am at over 500+ fights now. Lucky I got some stuff I wanted, but I miss some stuff I still want ¬.¬. I know people that are 300+ on kaggens body. Now I am 200+ fights on Akvan.... yaaaiiieee (and I didnt even start to farm the Zilart mobs...). This shit is really fucked up.

Even LS members come to help you, only to get their 2. identic ra/ex body and they cant give it to you...

[Zinato]

I should clarify it seems there is confusion. At no point did I oppose increased drop rates of any kind, in fact earlier in the thread I supported it. By all means players have every right to ask for any adjustments they deem worthy. Also I never at any point called players unwilling or choosing not to use Voidwatch in anyway lazy, as I don't think this is true. Additionally, I knew full well what I was doing speaking an unpopular opinion in a thread like this. "Finally, at risk of being hated by this entire thread, board and even my server."

Now then, at no point should empyrean/relic/mythic of any kind be a sorting feature on players. However, right now that is what is has become. I'm glad so many people have the top tier weapons and gear for every job they own, but the game is not only for you and other players deserve a shot at content too. I don't think many people are going to claim that a majority of players are well geared and good players. (also when I said "that perle WAR with Ukko" I didn't mean most players were white/pink/teal with empyrean, I ment even in white Ukko is often superior to all other form of WS) That said, if the game caters to the minority (the well geared ones) making all content require top tier items, that really will cause a decrease in subscriptions. Also I don't think that's what Neisan means as he said "there are no good players fulltiming perle or full Emp+2. " This implys only the highest class of gear and gear swaps and the knowledge to play a job make a player in the "good" catagory. The gear part wasn't even a part of my original statements it was a response to being told "great" gear is common which I bet many players would call false. But, since I bothered to respond, yes the DEVs want players without relic/mythic/empyrean to enjoy content too, even though a majority of the players doing Voidwatch and newer events won't allow that.

I am well aware the "fix" players seek is instant drop rate increases, a form of points to buy the items, a means to directly or indirectly give players r/x drops, or an overall pool. I just listed 4 ideas which would the DEVs pick if they had to? Who is going to complain if its not the method they seek? (I have been saying the forum is fighting itself in addition to fighting for a change.) What are the consequences of each change? Many posts simply say "add to pool spoils" quick fix end of discussion. However, would that not lead to the same item selling or the abyssea days allowing those with lots of money to gain what they seek and those without to still play the random chance game? (the very thing players were recently complaining about) On top of which I've said only the DEVs know how this will be concluded and that everyone only sees a part of the picture. (a image of water unsure if its the ocean, a pool or even a drinking glass) Players are jumping to conclusions and demanding this take priority over all other projects (even a simple programing change requires testing to ensure drops are coming at too high a rate, or that cures don't deal 9999 dmg) and that drop rates take priority over the content being enjoyed by as many as possible. For that matter we don't even know how loot is even distributed, there may be a reason some go 1/1 and others 0/400, as many have agreed the system is too random compared to other forms of event. Maybe plates take priority as a drop and if a plate drops and a body would have dropped the plate erases it. (if that's the case drop rates aren't the issue)

My goal here wasn't to protect the current system of Voidwatch, the goal was to was to point out that the DEVs are working at fixing Voidwatch, just not the things a player may personally want. (382 posts, including many repeating players, even the half dozen threads on the topic total come nowhere near a majority of our playerbase, this is not even a fraction of a percent. I said it once before, if players really feel the need for change many, many more people need to say something. In a "petition" of sorts each player has one vote which is cast by posting, and you can't speak for others just like you can't vote in an election for a non voting family member)
More importantly when a MOD comes to bring news of an adjustment and is met only with rage responses not even with actual feedback, just "that's not what I want go back and do it my way", that is when there are issues. It wouldn't surprise me in the least is the DEVs are keeping any adjustments on the subject a secret just to keep the peace. That is why I spoke, the attitude the thread gives is one of impatience, "My fix now or I keep raging" and after seeing the things said to the MODs bring good news, I choose to speak. I assure everyone they heard the request, repeating ourselves will do nothing but, frustrate everyone. If somehow my words were taken in any other way, I apologize.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Now then, at no point should empyrean/relic/mythic of any kind be a sorting feature on players. However, right now that is what is has become. I'm glad so many people have the top tier weapons and gear for every job they own, but the game is not only for you and other players deserve a shot at content too. I don't think many people are going to claim that a majority of players are well geared and good players. (also when I said "that perle WAR with Ukko" I didn't mean most players were white/pink/teal with empyrean, I ment even in white Ukko is often superior to all other form of WS) That said, if the game caters to the minority (the well geared ones) making all content require top tier items, that really will cause a decrease in subscriptions. Also I don't think that's what Neisan means as he said "there are no good players fulltiming perle or full Emp+2. " This implys only the highest class of gear and gear swaps and the knowledge to play a job make a player in the "good" catagory. The gear part wasn't even a part of my original statements it was a response to being told "great" gear is common which I bet many players would call false. But, since I bothered to respond, yes the DEVs want players without relic/mythic/empyrean to enjoy content too, even though a majority of the players doing Voidwatch and newer events won't allow that.

If you are using 5/5 pink/perle you are lazy and a bad player when better gear that does not require maximum dedication is available and easy to make. If you are fulltiming gear you are lazy and a bad player and don't understand how game mechanics work. You don't need the best gear to not suck at this game.

[Zinato]

If you are using 5/5 pink/perle you are lazy and a bad player when better gear that does not require maximum dedication is available and easy to make. If you are fulltiming gear you are lazy and a bad player and don't understand how game mechanics work. You don't need the best gear to not suck at this game.

I think I am asking for trouble so, I simply ask this where do you put the line? I don't want to battle on something off topic, so I'll keep my opinion to myself. I am curious to hear what specifically you mean, if you are willing to share, if not I understand. Any job will do just a comparison around where the line is drawn.

I didn't/won't try to argue perle/pink/teal or those without macros are good.

[Frost]

I think I am asking for trouble so, I simply ask this where do you put the line? I don't want to battle on something off topic, so I'll keep my opinion to myself. I am curious to hear what specifically you mean, if you are willing to share, if not I understand. Any job will do just a comparison around where the line is drawn.

I didn't/won't try to argue perle/pink/teal or those without macros are good.

It's completely off topic. But I will draw your line for you, in this one post and say no more.

When dealing with strangers, the "basic" gear for any job should signify a level of competence for the task they need to accomplish, and show they're a good choice among all available candidates.

You've been shot, unfortunate, but there's a couple people around offering you help:
A stranger in a swimsuit offering to take you to the hospital on the handlebars of their bike. They assure you they're fast.
A man visiting from japan, who might be offering his help as a doctor, or asking if you need one, but you can't quite understand him.
A paramedic in uniform, with a portable 'crash kit', and an ambulance.

Now unless the paramedic was the one that shot you, I think your choice is obvious.

[Yarly]

If you are using 5/5 pink/perle you are lazy and a bad player when better gear that does not require maximum dedication is available and easy to make. If you are fulltiming gear you are lazy and a bad player and don't understand how game mechanics work. You don't need the best gear to not suck at this game.

only elitists use different gear for their jobs and we don't like elitists here!

[Dreamin]

Sorry if some of our posts to your previous responses sound harsh, but the biggest issues with SE isn't just this issue along. It's a clear pattern where they dont appeared to really listen to the playerbase's feedback at all. When the playerbase keep giving them feedback on things that needs or should be fixed but they go and fix something else that a much smaller population complaint about it's a major issues with those of us that actually took the time to post our feedback. [Or in some cases, such as the mess of the BST jug voting, seems to completely disregarded what the playerbase all together.]

[Zinato]

The problem goes both ways however, the reason for posting in the first place even at risk of such harsh responses, was because of the treatment the forum gave Camate after bringing news. (reading those seemed like nothing more then attacks on him and the devs, that's not cool and I'd do the same if it happened to a stranger on the street) If players are going to act in such a way, what reason does SE have to change anything? We were assured our concerns are being discussed, when and how it is acted upon is for a later time, it won't be this instant no matter how we feel. I want to try to ease frustration for players and DEV alike.

The first post was to try to highlight the good the changes do bring even if its not the final goal. The second was to inform of possible draw backs to a change in the system, in other words the same things the DEVs could be considering and therefore delaying response time. As much as we all wish simply replacing the number 1 with 10 would fix things I am 100% sure it is not that simple. The last post of actual information was ment to show there are current alternatives to bide time, for both completion of Voidwatch and possible adjustment SE may implement. After that it was just responding to responses. The gear shouldn't have even come up and when it did all really I ment to say was the DEVs want everyone to join in events, like how in the 75 era people in AF or random gear could still participate in Dynamis/Limbus/Nyzul and so on, after all you can't very well need top notch gear to get top notch gear.

Overall, the point to be made, though I most likely didn't make it clear enough. Is this is not the way to get what we want, much like the post I made earlier in the thread. (before the one that started this) The wording I chose was stronger because I felt that was what is needed for it to sink in, since the MODs message didn't seem to get through. I know its not the instant victory we all want but, they are looking into ways to help voidwatch before they resort to just changing things in both current, and most likely future installments. As I stated we only have part of the complete picture so, it is really hard for us to judge anything from our point of view as there are so many things we don't know. That puts us in a very bad place to make suggestions, and that only fuels the tension for this subject.