Zanshin? why?

[Ryozen]

Ikishoten can reduce the number of hits to 100% TP, but it has to occur in the same cycle as a Conserve TP proc from Emp+2 feet/Ele-belt. Other than that, it's a very slight damage boost from the TP in excess of 100%. Considering that Zanshin has a chance to proc 5% of the time if you're doing things the right way, and Conserve TP procs maybe 10%(?) of the time, the chance of this situation is so small it might as well be ignored.

That being said, I have 5/5 Overwhelm, 4/5 Blade Bash, and 1/5 Shikikoyo. I find having a stun available for those times when it's needed in a pinch invaluable.

As for those recommending holding TP for Hobaku instead of using Blade Bash, HOLY SHIT are you doing it wrong. If you are in that scenario, you are on the wrong job, or at least someone in your group is.

[Jacs]

You shouldn't really dismiss Ikishoten so easily without at least considering the math. Assuming you use a 450 delay Great Katana and have the gear for a true 5-hit (74 Store TP in merits + gear), an Ikishoten (level 4) hit would give you 40.8 TP [(11.5 + 12)*1.74]. Thus a miss + Zanshin proc and land is in effect worth a little more than 2 regular hits landing. In essence, a landed Ikishoten hit shaves a hit off your build.

Note: I'm neglecting Double Attack for simplicity. Zanshin can't proc on a double or triple attack, so its value is diminished the more of those you have.

If you are talking about a single swing, a landed Zanshin hit will occur about 2.1% of all swings (0.05*0.45*0.95). You can look at it slightly differently though by considering build cycles to 100TP. If you are at accuracy cap for all melee swings and weaponskills, there is a 77.3% chance of landing your WS and 4-hits in a row (0.95^5). There is a 3.9% chance of missing a weaponskill then landing 5 hits in a row (0.05*0.95^5). Thus on 81.2% of all your TP build cycles, you won't have a chance for Zanshin to activate. That means on 18.8% of your TP build cycles, you will have at least one miss of a normal melee swing. 45% of those misses will trigger a Zanshin attack. It ends up having more impact than you might suspect just by considering a 95% accuracy rate. It is somewhere around ~6% of all TP builds to 100TP will see it be "useful" (meaning ignoring build cycles which put you at 120TP).

I personally used to have Blade Bash 4/5 and I did really like it. It was great for small group activities like Nyzul where a stun could stop a painful AOE. I have since switched it out for Ikishoten 4/5. I think the choice comes down to what you do with your SAM. I personally use mine for pure damage. SAM is my "main", but I am on other jobs more than I am on SAM. If I am to tank for a larger group, I will generally be MNK. If I am low manning, I will be NIN or THF. If my LS asks me to bring SAM (which they usually want MNK ;; ), they only want me spamming Fudo's. I just found myself rarely needing Blade Bash anymore so I rolled it back for Ikishoten. Neither is particularly game breaking.

All that said, I agree the set bonus on SAM AF3 sucks. Personally I would have rather seen something like Zanshin being able to proc on a normal landed melee swing, effectively being like double attacking I guess, but it would work with Ikishoten nicely.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Did you account for over TP rounds?

[Jacs]

Regarding my 6% number: I didn't math out every possible scenario, just the simplest ones which coincidentally have the highest probability of happening anyways. For example I didn't bother with a TP build cycle of Miss Miss Miss Hitx5, since that's going to be pretty rare at a 95% hit rate. Remember I left out double attack for the sake simplicity, so in my math, the only way you could have a TP overage is if you had a Ikishoten Zanshin swing proc when you were already sitting on 80%. These TP build cycles are not part of the 6%. The 6% includes only TP cycles in which an Ikishoten Zanshin swing would reduce your rounds to 100TP.

Again though, let me caution that Zanshin cannot proc on a double or triple attack. If you are wearing gear for that or using atmas, that 6% will be reduced.

[Toren]

I couldn't agree more, I myself use the same merit setup I played around with Ikishoten for a while and found out Blade Bash was more useful for the things I do. Ikishoten merits are not bad it just depends on the persons play style I can't count how many times I've prevented something serious from just using Blade Bash on both solo and endgame in groups. I just prefer having that extra stun there whenever its needed for those moments.

Edit: Asking for the Zanshin set effect on the Empryean armor since its almost useless anyone with a good TP setup and even worse to relic samurai's (from the Amanomurakumo's large accuracy bonus) since they should be capped on accuracy against almost all mobs. I personally would like to see a minor buff to Seigan to make it slightly more reliable then it is now.

[Ryozen]

Hmm, somehow I missed that Ikishoten's TP was affected by Store TP gear. For some reason I'd thought it was a flat +3 TP per level. That does make it slightly more useful, as it can shave off a hit on just about any build, depending on the level of merits.

[Gotterdammerung]

ANd i hope you not serious in thinking a galka blm could hang with a taru.

Put them in the same gear same merits etc who's gonna win?

Well considering the galka actually stays alive... the galka wins.

[Sukasaroth]

im a taru sam with close to stage 4 amano :|

DONT SHOOT ME

[Ryozen]

So you're not even half way done?

[Amoklauf]

With all the Zanshin enhancing gear out there I believed (for a very long time) that SOMETHING out there would have a hidden effect of 'augmenting' it to proc on connected hits or WS, making it a type of double attack. Then I remembered the whole core of the job trait was to proc on misses and then I had a sad.