Zanshin? why?

[brayen]

iirc u need to give up like 1 or 2 haste for a 4hit with a 480, unkai head/body/legs+2 unkai neck ace's feet goading belt rajas/hoard ring brutal rose and the 480 stp+6 gk should be about enough give or take, can add the regain ear and start to drop some stuff and when u add atma like VV you can add even more haste like dropping goading for bullwhip or dropping unkai legs for bustle dirs etc etc

[Matayo]

Well I'm not aginst zanshin at all I love it really. Don't need to put on all that acc gear other jobs use. My merits is set up 1, 1, 3, 5 no point in fully merit blade bash lol like some1 said if the party/group need a stunner one should be there. But AF3 set bonus suck ass. The main reason I say that is cause when you wear the full set it gives you a nice amount of acc lol feet hands body gives you a shit load then you have dex on legs and head so what's the point. Then think about it with it being a low % of you missing in abyssea then you have the % that the zanshin procs then on top of that there is a super small % your set bonus procs lol. Really that's to much to count on. And on that note I've never seen x2 dmg proc other then my aftermath lol. The set just doesn't do it.

[Riko]

The main reason of this post is so that some change may happen to this ability. To inform SE that it's almost useless now that the game has evolved a lot over the 6 years or so. Other job abilities SE likes to augment and change via gear like Double Attack and Triple Attack have no effect and never will as the game evolves more since they have no negative activation rates. By that I mean you don't need to "fail" to active it. Anyway, since I have high hopes for these forums to be a great in helping make tweaks/changes to Jobs and their abilities, SE should look at my previous post in this thread!

[Zenpachi]

here you go Matayo just so you can say that you have seen it atleast once, cuz its only happened once to me lol



i also played around with the set bonus but i didnt have enough enhance zanshin gear on, just pop a blind potion and there you go, or use a Kawahori Kabuto those things are dirt cheap anyways

[Jomen]

Okay, so let me throw this in. I read the first four pages and kind of decided to skip the last two to make this statement.

If you're meriting blade bash, you're wasting your time!! Seriously, when does anyone expect a sam to stun? If you're in a big group and throwing blade bash in every 10 seconds then you are seriously silly. If you didn't fully merit overwhelm then you're not reaching the full potential of SAM. Now, before you go crazy on this...why?

Blade bash merited once gives you a stun with "plague" every 15 minutes. Fully merited it goes down to ten. Same timing as other useless moves. Bosses do moves way more often then 10-15 minutes. Also, when a boss needs to be stunned...don't you bring a blue mage or black mage with you? Blue mage hasted can usually shoot out a head butt every 3 seconds. Black mage hasted and with fast cast gear, I've seen, can get to around 23 seconds on recast if lucky. Rdm is by far quicker. So why, may I ask, would we want to waste our merits on something that can maybe help out our party or alliance every 10 minutes? We don't. Put them in overwhelm and shikikoyo and get in the mobs face and deal damage. That's our job...that's what we do best.

As for zanshin..and the development of sam. Screw you SE. It seems like they are making our job very equipment based now, more so than any other job. My blu can run through areas in abyssea with just swords and do crazy damage but my sam is dead in a few seconds. Now, I can't say all empyrean armor is bad. The Unkai Kote pack quite a punch with it's enhancements to sekkanoki.

Also, making a Zanshin build, like everyone else here has already said is simply ridiculous. Gearing to miss is like settling to marry someone you aren't in love with. Don't settle for second best! Be the best SAM you can be! Don't. Miss. Ever.

~Jo

[Neisan_Quetz]

Shiki is stupid except at the start of certain fights for opening SC with another DD, which no one does, and most DD can get TP fast enough on their own/ can /sam if 2H and meditate on their own, Ikishoten is lol. Blade Bash has far more utility than both of those. If you can't see why an extra stun is useful, and one that can inflict plague at that, I can't help you.

[Een]

I do recall Samurai being given Tachi: Hobaku. Maybe i'm the only one who got that WS in the FFXI world. Guess I'm special.

That is my 'extra stun'. I won't and will not merit Blade Bash when I have Hobaku. But I guess SE didn't find you worthy of such a powerful WS and just gave it to me. I can even stop Meltdown with Hobaku!

I do see the usefullness of an 'extra stun', but I use my TP, which I'm never in short supply of, to help out with stuns. Hell, I can even Sekkanoki and stun the mob twice! Try doing that with your Blade Bash!

And by the way, fully merited it is 5:00 recast. Not 10:00. Post before last I am referring to.

AND Plague..if it was an actual spell..would be of use. But until they allow "Virus" to be added in for BLM's to inflict this status effect, it isn't useful and shouldn't be considered in your obtaining of this merited JA.

I do see why people like this blade bash. It can be used over a JT like Ikishoten which can't be activated manually. I can see why people would like a usuable Job Ability they can add to their macro list.. But it doesn't really make it more useful than Ikishoten.

Now, I AM NOT saying build around missing, that is just plain stupid, to put it bluntly. But if you did merit Ikishoten, when Zanshin did kick in you would gain a massive amount of TP over a normal hit. And let's be honest, time to time you do miss and Zanshin activates and you land. I see how that could be very useful also. Fully Merited you would get, (3 TP per Merited Level of Ikishoten) 15 TP on a landed Zanshin hit, PLUS tp from whatever Store TP you have.

But you can't outweigh one over the other and say that, "just because you can stun a target and give it plague, Blade Bash is the wiser choice and anyone using Ikishoten is a dummy."

Really, once Overwhelm, Meditate and Store TP also maxed, the last 5 merits in Group 2 is really of personal opinion. You aren't going to turn the tide of battle by having one or the other.

[Javelin]

...before addressing the very basic resist or timing that makes skillchain rarely useful...

agreed with your other stuff, but wth? skillchains are rediculous in and out of abyssea still, I'm a amano90 sam and make at least lvl 2 sc with almost all other ws's. I rarely get sc resisted even on mega's/shinryu/salvage bosses/etc.....

anyway, zanshin and the "zanshin" build have always been trash, we're so far past acc cap in and out of abyssea the vast majority of the time that it doesn't matter at all, its nice on the 5%~ of the time that it does proc because of the tp return and enhancements from af3+2, but you're really missing the mark if you're trying for -100 or more acc to try to make that crap proc more, more zanshin equip=less haste/stp/DA anyway (real DA, not someday my zanshin will proc and it will be a DA).....IF it does proc on ws, which there would really be no way to measure since 2-hand single hit ws have a huge acc bonus, then thats cool....but i would prefer if zanshin was just changed so that it made 100% of all your missed hits hit the target, putting sam at an artificial 100% acc cap.

Blade bash merits vs ikishoten.... personal opinion here, but lessening recast on a move that "may" stun the target isn't going to win you a fight, and if you think that way then your group of pink power rangers and white knights probably takes 18 ppl to kill an nm in the same time that it can be duo'd sam, whm or sam, rdm.... I put 1 in bash, 1 in shikkikoyo, max overwhelm, and rest in ikishoten, just because 1. you can use hobaku in place of lessened bash timer if absolutely necessary, 2. shikkikoyo is really only for long fights(5m+) that you actually prep for and actually have a DD that CAN(read: sometimes, for masamume and amano90 holders lol) out do you on that 1st ws ( e.g. ukon war), 3. overwhelm cus of...duh!, 4. ikishoten+ zanshin, WHEN it does proc is always nice, can end up with 30+ tp from 1 hit(60/90+ from da/ta), nothing replaces that really, you see a miss on mob with high eva and then your chat log lags because you just hit twice and ws'd in 1 sec right after your 1st ws and you hit a sc and you kill that nin mob in dyna that was about to 2hr rape your blm's that were too close(just a random example that has been known to happen)

[Jomen]

Yes, looks like I miscalculated the recast but I have to stand with everyone else saying that if you're using up your merits on blade bash then you're not playing right. Hobaku is good against most mobs, not unbeatable but very good. Shiki is useful in some situations, ukon war, pld with chivalry, and just so you don't get the hate from a 300% tp ws. At full merits on meditate and shikokoyo. You will be able to use meditate - sekkanoki - meditate - shikikoyo - meditate. Giving you the best way to use that extra tp which we really don't use all the time.

As for Zanshin, i see the use for it, not knocking it, but don't build to miss.

[brayen]

agreed with your other stuff, but wth? skillchains are rediculous in and out of abyssea still, I'm a amano90 sam and make at least lvl 2 sc with almost all other ws's. I rarely get sc resisted even on mega's/shinryu/salvage bosses/etc.....

Skillchains rarely go unresisting on anything worth something, maybe on fodder bait but pull something big at the lvl of say DL back at 75 and any skillchain would do pennies, this why im saying to help the res on them, i mean the times you skillchain for skillchain dmg is usually when it would matter more as opposed to when you are just doing them because the opportunity came about. Mind you rana to gekko + skillchain is practically a wash in most cases as rana sucks and skillchin needs to mirror to be worth the use of a rana..granted all of this is mostly based on pre 80~85 as abyssea has made me mnk or blu fulltime so hard to compare on more recent mobs.

Adding on here, i have no freaking clue why anyone is arguing over tier 2 merits iko is utter waste it contributes nothing blade bash at a 5min recast at least is a stun iko is worthless as you are hoping to miss and on top of it relying on it to gain some extra tp that in 99.9% of cases wont get u to 100% faster. if you want to argue for shiki it has its merit if you have good players and like spreading some tp overflow, personally i like being able to stun random stuff thats nasty like a doom or death etc where in said cases not very likely to be a deciding factor it does help and the extra plague is nice perk. Mind you blade bash IS a reliable stun, cant recall last mob that it didn't stun.

Additionally Javelin i am not sure if i understood that last part on your post but if you are implying that zanshin can proc on DA or TA, this is not the case, it can only proc on single swing if single swing misses > chance of proc if on that first swing you proc a DA or TA zanshin is null

In any case the point of this thread is to hope for some change for zanshin or just outright stop throwing pies at SAM with the 7 slots of zanshin emp armor ~.~ no one is going to miss enough to work around this trait contrary to what some people are posting