Zanshin? why?

[Rambus]

i know shame on me, because a lvl 72 GK with base dmg of 77 is such a good choice in weaponry.

ANd i hope you not serious in thinking a galka blm could hang with a taru.

Put them in the same gear same merits etc who's gonna win?

the one that knows how to use thier gear, knows when to rest and hold back, but ya your expecting the answer to be taru if all things even, and thats how it should be.

I am confused about the level 72 weapon however, are you talking about the PW GKT that has Zanshin on it? I herd of people playing around with Zanshin setups because of it but like OP is pointing out gearing to miss is pretty fail

[Superchicken]

the one that knows how to use thier gear, knows when to rest and hold back, but ya your expecting the answer to be taru if all things even, and thats how it should be.

I am confused about the level 72 weapon however, are you talking about the PW GKT that has Zanshin on it? I herd of people playing around with Zanshin setups because of it but like OP is pointing out gearing to miss is pretty fail

this is why i said same gear. Same gear of course the taru is gonna win for several reasons, one being higher INT 2 being more MP

[brayen]

honestly they started off on the right foot with making improvements to skillchains at first but it seems they abandon this idea already before addressing the very basic resist or timing that makes skillchain rarely useful. honestly hope they think of something more acceptable in the coming updates, as if trend continues they might as well turn our resist blind to blind +100 so we can make use of all that "great" zanshin buff

[NotAzure]

honestly they started off on the right foot with making improvements to skillchains at first but it seems they abandon this idea already before addressing the very basic resist or timing that makes skillchain rarely useful. honestly hope they think of something more acceptable in the coming updates, as if trend continues they might as well turn our resist blind to blind +100 so we can make use of all that "great" zanshin buff

True, yeah.
Doesn't it strike you odd that SAM gets but a single tier of Skill Chain Bonus when Dancer gets 4? I suppose Sengikori is there to make up the difference, but still...

Speaking of Sengikori, wouldn't it make sense to have merits spent lowering Meditate's recast to impact Sengikori as well? It seems fairly evident to me that they're meant to be used in tandem.

[Rambus]

True, yeah.
Doesn't it strike you odd that SAM gets but a single tier of Skill Chain Bonus when Dancer gets 4? I suppose Sengikori is there to make up the difference, but still...

Speaking of Sengikori, wouldn't it make sense to have merits spent lowering Meditate's recast to impact Sengikori as well? It seems fairly evident to me that they're meant to be used in tandem.

I would think it would make more sence to have sekkanoki and sengikori at the same recast

[Javelin]

...before addressing the very basic resist or timing that makes skillchain rarely useful...

agreed with your other stuff, but wth? skillchains are rediculous in and out of abyssea still, I'm a amano90 sam and make at least lvl 2 sc with almost all other ws's. I rarely get sc resisted even on mega's/shinryu/salvage bosses/etc.....

anyway, zanshin and the "zanshin" build have always been trash, we're so far past acc cap in and out of abyssea the vast majority of the time that it doesn't matter at all, its nice on the 5%~ of the time that it does proc because of the tp return and enhancements from af3+2, but you're really missing the mark if you're trying for -100 or more acc to try to make that crap proc more, more zanshin equip=less haste/stp/DA anyway (real DA, not someday my zanshin will proc and it will be a DA).....IF it does proc on ws, which there would really be no way to measure since 2-hand single hit ws have a huge acc bonus, then thats cool....but i would prefer if zanshin was just changed so that it made 100% of all your missed hits hit the target, putting sam at an artificial 100% acc cap.

Blade bash merits vs ikishoten.... personal opinion here, but lessening recast on a move that "may" stun the target isn't going to win you a fight, and if you think that way then your group of pink power rangers and white knights probably takes 18 ppl to kill an nm in the same time that it can be duo'd sam, whm or sam, rdm.... I put 1 in bash, 1 in shikkikoyo, max overwhelm, and rest in ikishoten, just because 1. you can use hobaku in place of lessened bash timer if absolutely necessary, 2. shikkikoyo is really only for long fights(5m+) that you actually prep for and actually have a DD that CAN(read: sometimes, for masamume and amano90 holders lol) out do you on that 1st ws ( e.g. ukon war), 3. overwhelm cus of...duh!, 4. ikishoten+ zanshin, WHEN it does proc is always nice, can end up with 30+ tp from 1 hit(60/90+ from da/ta), nothing replaces that really, you see a miss on mob with high eva and then your chat log lags because you just hit twice and ws'd in 1 sec right after your 1st ws and you hit a sc and you kill that nin mob in dyna that was about to 2hr rape your blm's that were too close(just a random example that has been known to happen)

[brayen]

agreed with your other stuff, but wth? skillchains are rediculous in and out of abyssea still, I'm a amano90 sam and make at least lvl 2 sc with almost all other ws's. I rarely get sc resisted even on mega's/shinryu/salvage bosses/etc.....

Skillchains rarely go unresisting on anything worth something, maybe on fodder bait but pull something big at the lvl of say DL back at 75 and any skillchain would do pennies, this why im saying to help the res on them, i mean the times you skillchain for skillchain dmg is usually when it would matter more as opposed to when you are just doing them because the opportunity came about. Mind you rana to gekko + skillchain is practically a wash in most cases as rana sucks and skillchin needs to mirror to be worth the use of a rana..granted all of this is mostly based on pre 80~85 as abyssea has made me mnk or blu fulltime so hard to compare on more recent mobs.

Adding on here, i have no freaking clue why anyone is arguing over tier 2 merits iko is utter waste it contributes nothing blade bash at a 5min recast at least is a stun iko is worthless as you are hoping to miss and on top of it relying on it to gain some extra tp that in 99.9% of cases wont get u to 100% faster. if you want to argue for shiki it has its merit if you have good players and like spreading some tp overflow, personally i like being able to stun random stuff thats nasty like a doom or death etc where in said cases not very likely to be a deciding factor it does help and the extra plague is nice perk. Mind you blade bash IS a reliable stun, cant recall last mob that it didn't stun.

Additionally Javelin i am not sure if i understood that last part on your post but if you are implying that zanshin can proc on DA or TA, this is not the case, it can only proc on single swing if single swing misses > chance of proc if on that first swing you proc a DA or TA zanshin is null

In any case the point of this thread is to hope for some change for zanshin or just outright stop throwing pies at SAM with the 7 slots of zanshin emp armor ~.~ no one is going to miss enough to work around this trait contrary to what some people are posting

[hiko]

Yes, looks like I miscalculated the recast but I have to stand with everyone else saying that if you're using up your merits on blade bash then you're not playing right. Hobaku is good against most mobs, not unbeatable but very good. Shiki is useful in some situations, ukon war, pld with chivalry, and just so you don't get the hate from a 300% tp ws. At full merits on meditate and shikokoyo. You will be able to use meditate - sekkanoki - meditate - shikikoyo - meditate. Giving you the best way to use that extra tp which we really don't use all the time.

As for Zanshin, i see the use for it, not knocking it, but don't build to miss.

if you have a ukon war, a sam and a pld in the same pt you're doing it wrong,
if in this pt you die because you take hate after a 300TP WS, you, your healer, your war are doing it wrong too

agreed with your other stuff, but wth? skillchains are rediculous in and out of abyssea still, I'm a amano90 sam and make at least lvl 2 sc with almost all other ws's. I rarely get sc resisted even on mega's/shinryu/salvage bosses/etc.....

anyway, zanshin and the "zanshin" build have always been trash, we're so far past acc cap in and out of abyssea the vast majority of the time that it doesn't matter at all, its nice on the 5%~ of the time that it does proc because of the tp return and enhancements from af3+2, but you're really missing the mark if you're trying for -100 or more acc to try to make that crap proc more, more zanshin equip=less haste/stp/DA anyway (real DA, not someday my zanshin will proc and it will be a DA).....IF it does proc on ws, which there would really be no way to measure since 2-hand single hit ws have a huge acc bonus, then thats cool....but i would prefer if zanshin was just changed so that it made 100% of all your missed hits hit the target, putting sam at an artificial 100% acc cap.

Blade bash merits vs ikishoten.... personal opinion here, but lessening recast on a move that "may" stun the target isn't going to win you a fight, and if you think that way then your group of pink power rangers and white knights probably takes 18 ppl to kill an nm in the same time that it can be duo'd sam, whm or sam, rdm.... I put 1 in bash, 1 in shikkikoyo, max overwhelm, and rest in ikishoten, just because 1. you can use hobaku in place of lessened bash timer if absolutely necessary, 2. shikkikoyo is really only for long fights(5m+) that you actually prep for and actually have a DD that CAN(read: sometimes, for masamume and amano90 holders lol) out do you on that 1st ws ( e.g. ukon war), 3. overwhelm cus of...duh!, 4. ikishoten+ zanshin, WHEN it does proc is always nice, can end up with 30+ tp from 1 hit(60/90+ from da/ta), nothing replaces that really, you see a miss on mob with high eva and then your chat log lags because you just hit twice and ws'd in 1 sec right after your 1st ws and you hit a sc and you kill that nin mob in dyna that was about to 2hr rape your blm's that were too close(just a random example that has been known to happen)

3 ikishiten merit is totaly stupid, it will add 9(*stp) TP to your hit but wont lower your hit build by one, you just ws with a litle more tp, for it to not be useless it need to add as much TP as one extra hit
and no you cant have da/ta in a zanshin round (without the zanshincc double attack gk)

+using blade bash=> gekko instead of hobaku is a bigger dmg gain than you can get from ikishoten,

a blade bash fix so it deals dmg (like weapon bash )is enough to beat dmg boost from ikishoten

[Rawr]

just make zanshin work on ws. problem solved!

[Mirage]

I'm pretty sure it does. How else would you be able to return 1 TP on a single-hit WS without DA?