Offhand for almace

[Neisan_Quetz]

Stopped reading at MAB atma. Not sure how I walked past kclub either, I must be tired.

[Transmit]

I know that with the OA2 sword is really all but useless seeing as with the Double Attack sword it is very easy for a BLU to hit over 30% double attack and 3% TA /nin, or 34% DA 8% TA if you're pushing it with /war, and the DA applies to both hands rather than just the sword it is on, and it also proc's on WS's for increased damage. Meaning a 40% OA2 in one hand isn't all that appealing for TP gain seeing as it renders DA / TA much less useful.

But I couldnt say for OA2-4 times, did anyone ever work out the exact distribution of hits for it? I thought it was pretty poor.

On a side note I've been on the test server doing new Nyzul with BLU, and it seems to be the same as level 75 nyzul. BLU is extremely useful as sudden lunge stuns nearly everything you come across. (Though we couldnt find a boss floor to see what we got)

[Tashan]

As said, it get's really difficult to calculate the differences in damage between the weapons precisely because the is a lot which must be considered for in order to do so. As such, it's not something which I will be taking the time to actually do but I can demonstrate what exactly the thought process behind it is.

The main areas of consideration would be:
--> The situation you are in.
--> Your statistics including traits, equipment, food, and enhancements.
--> Enemy statistics.

Situation

The situation is important because it determines a BLU's general battle strategy.

For example, in a situation where you are killing monsters for an extended amount of time such as an abyssea merit party the most damage you can be doing on BLU is to cast Delta Thrust, Heavy Strike, and Benethic Typhoon as much as possible whilst meleeing, weaponskilling and self-skillchaining. With the release of the new spells you'll now be throwing EF Quadrastrikes in as much as possible, rather than EFCA Qaud. Cont. Since you will be spending nearly as much time spellcast as you will be meleeing, instantly the 11 STR weapon becomes a much better constant boost.

In the example you've mention of High Def/High Level monsters, I assume you're refering to Voidwatch where your best option is to not melee but to spam Regurgitation, Dark Orb and perform as many BA Everyone's Grudge's as you can.

In situations such as Notorious Monsters, you'll want to avoid using OA2-4 weapons as much as possible because the TP recievedamage ratio you're feeding to your opponent is in their favour since the sword has such a low base-damage.

Statistics

Consider:

-->STR vs VIT - Are you already capping fSTR on the monster you're fighting?
-->Physical BLU ATK vs DEF - How much damage will your spells be doing?
-->Melee ATK vs DEF - How much damage will your WS' and melee swings be doing?
-->Additional Attacks and Counter Rates
-->Delay reduction and Haste
-->WS TP Gain - How often will you be recieving additional hits during weaponskills? How much extra TP will you have after WS' over time? How much of that TP will be spent for spellcasts during Chain Affinity?
-->Critical Hit Damage and Rate

---

All of this can become extremely specific and time-consuming that it's beyond my own interests. However, there are those who will put in the effort and work and you are able to contact them.

For example: I believe it was Nightfyre of the Fenrir server who took the time to compare the LV90 DA+10 weapon against the STR Shamshir for damage and found the STR Shamshir pulls ahead.

[Tashan]

But I couldnt say for OA2-4 times, did anyone ever work out the exact distribution of hits for it? I thought it was pretty poor.

IIRC it was 40/20/10 for 2/3/4 attacks respectively. The OA2-3 Sword averaged at 1.7 attacks per round, so the OA2-4 can't be much higher than that.

[Prothscar]

On the contrary, /WAR is the best melee sub that BLU can use in any situation that it would be meleeing aside from solo.

[Demonofhunger]

On the contrary, /WAR is the best melee sub that BLU can use in any situation that it would be meleeing aside from solo.

What situation would you use /WAR for?

I do a lot of lowmanning, tanking, and soloing, and in those situations I can't see /WAR being useful since it lacks damage mitigation. Honestly, I can't think of a single situation where /WAR would be the best choice.

Are people making these evaluations based on some theoretical fight where /WAR would be useful to max out melee strikes and the enemy never hits you or uses TP moves? I could see that happening in merit Abyssea parties, but who really cares about maxxing melee there since mobs last a few seconds each? You could increase kill speed better by simply BLU-burning.

It's these kinds of issues that make me really want to see the original calculations. I'm only asking that someone post a link.

[saevel]

What situation would you use /WAR for?

I do a lot of lowmanning, tanking, and soloing, and in those situations I can't see /WAR being useful since it lacks damage mitigation. Honestly, I can't think of a single situation where /WAR would be the best choice.

Are people making these evaluations based on some theoretical fight where /WAR would be useful to max out melee strikes and the enemy never hits you or uses TP moves? I could see that happening in merit Abyssea parties, but who really cares about maxxing melee there since mobs last a few seconds each? You could increase kill speed better by simply BLU-burning.

It's these kinds of issues that make me really want to see the original calculations. I'm only asking that someone post a link.

BLU/WAR is used when you need maximum melee offense. Almace/STR Shamshir with DWIII set and as many JT's as you can fit along with A.Spikes and Q.strike (self SC properties). Use occulation for damage mitigation and ride zerg while spamming CDC as much as possible. It's not a sub for solo / small group scenarios.

[Nightfyre]

What situation would you use /WAR for?

I do a lot of lowmanning, tanking, and soloing, and in those situations I can't see /WAR being useful since it lacks damage mitigation. Honestly, I can't think of a single situation where /WAR would be the best choice.

Given the lack of any useful clarifying information from the OP, the assumption is that damage output is the primary focus and you build accordingly when making comparisons. If you want data for a specific situation, you have to provide specific input.

For your specific case, I can actually construct further arguments against the use of an OA4 weapon given the increase in TP feed and inefficient damage/hit. You have to weigh the TP gain of an OA4 offhand (which is solely useful for increased Sanguine Blade spam, at which point the use of mainhand Almace is called into question... I'm sure you can see where I'm going here) against a defensive option (pdt/eva swords, Genbu's Shield) or even simply killing faster with a superior offhand.

As for /WAR, I use it pretty much any time where damage taken either isn't a concern or can't be sufficiently mitigated by subjob abilities to justify the loss of output. This actually includes a fair amount of Voidwatch NMs, among other content. It's not necessary for the purpose of my comparison though and I did the comparisons both as /NIN and /WAR. Also, even as /NIN you'll find that BLU does in fact have a high base multiattack rate. My melee-focused set has 6% triple attack and 16% DA and is actually missing 3% DA (Portus Collar, though it's not exactly clear-cut vs Rancor). Combined with even our 7% base trait, that's 1.3362 attacks generated per hand per round using Almace/STR. By comparison, an augmented Armadaberk WAR using AF3 neck/earring, Brutal, Atheling, and AF3+2 legs has 31% DA for 1.31 attacks per round. If /WAR with Triple attack set, my hits/round actually exceeds that of a MNK/WAR. I'll grant that the set I'm using on BLU is pretty high-end (I have Toci's Harness and Ocelomeh Headpiece +1), but even replacing Ocelomeh+1/Toci's with Mavi+2/Mavi+2 you exceed 1.25 hits as /NIN with DA set.

I'll do some fresh comparisons for 99 later, holidays etc.

[Prothscar]

Could just get better support. I don't have Nightfyre's information concerning swords, however using common sense and experience with the job for several years, I can affirm my belief in /WAR being the superior sub job for BLU in most situations where you're meleeing these days. That allows access to a large amount of multiattack+, which does not mesh well with an OA2-4 weapon. Beyond that, the weapon's pitiful base damage and delay make it even more unattractive. Surely you can see that?

[Transmit]

In VW /war is fantastic if you plan on meleeing the monster. Occultation is nothing to be sniffed at, and Magic Barrier is good for negating that next AoE. But really? A good group in VW should be able to keep you in fanatic drinks about 80% of the time.

You can set triple attack on BLU main, have double attack from sub, zerk + aggresor, dual wield 3 naturally from BLU now. It has a lot to really push up your melee damage.

I've tried /war at Pil, Akvan, Kaggen, Qilin etc and I survive just as easily as any other DD and I'm able to provide massive chunks of damage.