Victory smite nerf [dev1064]

[FrankReynolds]

don't doubt a 99Pup's with a Lv.95 KKK ability to humble all mnks.
its easier to swallow if you're prepared with the reality of just how bad ass KKK is.

Well hopefully they make those more easily attainable. Nyzul weapons are a friggin pain.

[MarkovChain]

tldr; VS is now likely 15% crit at 100 tp.

Ok I tested VS' innate crit rate. I did plenty of WS on even match sand sweeper, without killing them, without mutiattack, without gorget etc. Since BG wiki average pdif formula are wrong I had to do a samples for crit hits and non crit hit.

Atmas : RR/GH/SS : with dex bonus it gives 75% crit rate total and 60% crit damage
stats : PUP99/THF49 564 Att, 172 STR, 208 dex (irrelevant), 127 vit


victory smite sample=[3552, 2732, 3098, 3902, 3169, 2652, 3328, 3616, 3815, 3074, 3592, 3618, 2267, 2844, 3535, 2490, 3100, 3554, 2950, 3675, 3724, 2715, 3079, 2604, 2467, 3291, 3224, 3676, 3343, 2781, 3351, 1797, 2429, 3705, 3215, 3029, 3699, 3032, 3229, 3004, 2313, 1899, 2760, 2967, 3161, 3333, 2401, 3119, 3041, 3814, 3725, 2114, 3026, 3437, 1766, 2809, 2775, 2491, 3200, 1963, 3803, 3137, 2079, 3218, 3403, 3578, 2544, 3505, 2748, 3363, 2664, 3827, 3697,2852,3916,2724,3548,3298]
78 weapon skills
average : 3076.60 +/- 119 (the error should be lower as each ws is 4 rolls, so it's probably half of that)

Crit sample:[318,384,344,396,339,406,400,368,697,326,369,422,417,324,369,353,363,400,348,396,353,360,361,379,401,417,353,312,427,326,416,345,412,304,344,420,340,356,356,380,214,329,344,404,382,395,332,361,302,339,393,414,321,409,400,323,360,308,395,312,398,379,342,419,340,318,366,360,412,339,380,395,360,318,408,297,360,329,320,396,323,358,366,316,315,396,374,419,300,337,406,355,347,358,340,379,366,363,340,392,406,320,340,408,387,398,416,377,412,337,361,358,350,315,323,321,353,308,240,348,328,336,328,339,326,404,374,308,331,414,360,305,313,372,324,388,412,401,342,390,329,334,339,347,428,427]
146 crits,
average : mc=362.33 +/- 7.7

non crits=[103,155,123,101,101,100,103,103,100,135,117,105,113,100,105,102,155,105,100,147,101,100,130,105,144,104,105,133,104,152,141,147,100,103,139,112,143,104,104,154,101,117,102,145,102,103,129,107,109,127,101,101,100,100,105,102,105,101,134,105,101,124,151,103,108,100,157,146,103,149,109,105,140,104,104,106,106,153,100,105,104,103,150,140,109,117,120,108,113,117,105,152,147,103,101,104,108,136,107,125,130,153,101,103,101,140,156,104,129,137,138,100,132,103,116,102,150,117,154,142,139,103,105]
123 hits
average : m1=117.82 +/- 3.37

My WSD is WSC:=floor(432*0.11)+3+12+39+floor(0.85*(floor(0.32*172)+floor(0.32*127)))=181
(using 432 skill and D+39 weapon)

(2.25+3)*WSC*(0.90*mc*1.6+0.10*m1)*0.95=3020.007026 if 15% crit rate
(2.25+3)*WSC*(0.85*mc*1.6+0.15*m1)*0.95=2910.733566 if 10% crit rate
(2.25+3)*WSC*(0.95*mc*1.6+0.05*m1)*0.95=3129.280486 if 20% crit rate

Well since I find 3076 it can be either 15% or 20%, it cannot be less, and it's likely 15% since my CI should be lower than what I have due to one ws being 4 hits. Did they ajust it yet or not ? If they did it means the maths done that usually assumed 15% crit are wrong but now are right lol. It could be that they nerfed it from 20% to 15%. 25% to 20% is impossible since it was previously tested with atmas to be impossible by gokku.

[Warden]

I did some very crude VS work on the test server to at least get some taste for the nerf. I was fighting Pil as MNK99/SAM49.
-Impetus/boost not used on any WS's/throughout testing (Impetus up would have been pretty much pointless since I could only survive for 60 seconds with fanatic's and was barely auto-attacking the whole time anyway).
-Champion's/Stalwarts/Braver's Tonics all used
-Food: Sole Sushi

-Gear-
Weapon: Verethragna 90
Ammo: Potestas Bomblet
Head: Shura+1: Augmented with 4 DEX/5 Attack/3% WSD
Neck: Rancor Collar
Ear1: Aesir Ear Pendant
Ear2: Brutal Earring
Body/Feet: Tantra+2
Legs: Shura+1: Augmented with STR+4
Hands: Heafoc Mitts
Ring1: Epona's Ring
Ring2: Rajas Ring
Back: Atheling Mantle
Waist: Thunder Belt

VS Damage: 18 WS's Total; Average = 1477
762
773
831
-----
1117
1150
1255
1329
1395
1474
1502
1582
1659
1707
1720
-----
1891
1944
2035
-----
2456

I have only done maybe 16-20 Pils total on the normal server, and sadly have not parsed myself on any of them. From memory, and as I am sure many others can attest--the lowest smites I ever saw were ~1150, and my highest on Pil was 3098. The most common numbers I recall seeing were the 1300-2700 range, with 1300-1999 comprising maybe 50% of the WS's, another 40% in the 2000-3000 range, and then 10% either below 1300 or above 3000. Again, I'm obviously just going off of memory on the numbers without the nerf present-and these numbers also include impetus/full DD drinks applied, and other times with no impetus/DD drinks applied.

Using that exact same gear set, I tossed out a couple of spirals for shiz, which ended up being 703, 764, 813, and 870. Obviously this is FAR from anywhere near an ideal Shijin set. I'm wondering if an ideal set + the increased base dmg from spharai could pull Shijin up to ~1400, or possibly even more.

[MarkovChain]

Shijin will pull ahead easily if you gear for it, the increased damage from spharai is marginal as 1 dex is nearly 1 dmg.

[Warden]

Shijin will pull ahead easily if you gear for it, the increased damage from spharai is marginal as 1 dex is nearly 1 dmg.

Hmm, hopefully I can get in on a Pil run soon and get some more solid testing without the nerf on VS dmg, and with impetus up whenever possible throughout the fight. As I am sure it is already apparent, trying to get useful data from this game is rather new territory for me--the main question I am leaning on now though is...will optimizing mnk DPS now consists of using Vere/VS 60% of the time with impetus up, and switching to spharai/SS for the remaining 40% of the time with impetus down to optimize dps. To be clear, I am strictly talking about outside of abyssea.

[MarkovChain]

The difference while impetus is up is marginal enough to full time the relic. The only reason for vere is when you have a lot of crit from outside sources. Other wise they are pretty much equal but spharai is more consistent since it's a multihit.

[sruon]

I don't always read pchan threads, but when I do, I do it for the disinformation.

[Greatguardian]

I don't always read pchan threads, but when I do, I do it for the disinformation.

What disinformation?

Coming from Pchan at least?

[Atoreis]

Maybe the part where on paper SS match/surpass VS and in reality its far behind? The problem is that Markov for some strange reason doesnt fight VW and give us a real numbers of SS at something like Kaggen. Getting Spharai on test server wont let me test it myself because I am lacking SS gear there.

Saying Impetus is a little boost to VS is just stupid and from my experience SS is not even close to VS at VW but ofc we wont ever get any proof because for Markov VW is stupid event that should be deleted from game

[Greatguardian]

Well the paper math looks to assume a damn near perfect DEX set for SS. Not many people have something like that, as there was no reason to before SS. Since the WSC is such a huge factor in SS, it's not surprising it's underperforming in practice compared to perfect gear sets.

You're not an idiot. Why in the world are you trying to overvalue parsed values - especially since Shijin beating Smite is largely dependent on using Spharai, not Vereth? If it's underperforming on Kaggen, then we probably have Kaggen's attributes wrong - because even Moten is pretty much on board with Pchan's Shijin analysis.