Haste and You... A guide to the misinformed.

[CrystalWeapon]

OP: great post. It's nice to see people running the numbers so that others can learn why certain stats are so valuable.

Unfortunately, gear elitists tend to come off in a poor light - you might say you feel sorry for them, but more often than not a new or average player's experience with a gear elitist is being denigrated for their less-than-optimal gear.

Gear elitists, in my experience, don't care where you're coming from -- if your gear is not the best possible (which at this point in time generally means a full set of Emp +2 armor and a lv.90 Emp weapon unless you're using Twilight gear) then you will be treated as someone who does not deserve to be breathing air, much less playing FFXI, and that gear elitist is likely to instruct you to either die in a fire or take a short walk off of a tall building.

[...]

This thread should be sticked. It is very informative and is done in a very friendly manner. I agree with you that most (elitists) are regarded with the stigma of being very rude and condescending. If more took the time to explain common misconceptions about game mechanics in a straightforward non-insulting way, these forums would be alot more enjoyable. You always run into the classic (noob) that will insult you and rant about playing their own way, but that's an inevitability. When the data is presented like this with clear citations and test results listed, you do reach the ears of the uninformed/misinformed. When you talk about horribly geared players to their face about how badly they fail in a rude manner, you sometimes cause those players to continue to play bad out of a defense mechanism.

tl;dr: Would be nice to see more of this over (troll) / (omg se how could you do this) / (demand) / (outright idiotic) threads.

[Reiterpallasch]

Using perle gear isn't stupid, even if it isn't optimal, so I have no real problems with people using that. Unless of course you have something better. Oh yeah, and if you're also mixing and matching your perle gear with other pieces, breaking the set bonus and ending up with a lower total haste than full perle. Saw that a few days ago, it made me sad.

Totally agree. It's a shame how many people will fight and argue with you if you even so much try to help with a bit of advice. Suggesting that 5/5 perle is better than 4/5 and ohat will likely just end up with the "ur teh elitist herp derp" talk, or "haste doesn't matter when it just makes me miss faster!" crap that people spread around.

This thread should be sticked.

Yes please!

[Korpg]

I wouldn't say this needs to be sticked, but at least the thread should be cleaned up alot.

Like from post 2 and beyond. Up until people got back on topic, which was, what, page 33 or so?

[Alukat]

quote of the op:
"% DA Haste
00% - 0 - 0
05% - 5 - 5
10% - 10 - 11
15% - 15 - 18
20% - 20 - 25
25% - 25 - 33
30% - 30 - 43
35% - 35 - 54
40% - 40 - 67
45% - 45 - 82
50% - 50 - 100
55% - 55 - 122
60% - 60 - 150
65% - 65 - 186
70% - 70 - 233
75% - 75 - 300
80% - 80 - 400"

thx for this chart
20% haste (+25)+ 7% DA (+8)= 21-22% (assuming at one u get +27) haste + 5% DA (+6)= 25% haste (+33)

now adding haste spell

35% haste (+54) + 7% DA (+10) = +64
37% haste (assuming +57) + 5% DA (+7) = +64
40% haste = +67

conclusion:

at lower haste level u can rep some haste for DA, 20% haste + 8%+ DA and 22% haste + 6%+ DA will outdo 25% haste.
gonna hope SE will give more DA & TA gear to us in the future ^^

[wish12oz]

at lower haste level u can rep some haste for DA, 20% haste + 8%+ DA and 22% haste + 6%+ DA will outdo 25% haste.
gonna hope SE will give more DA & TA gear to us in the future ^^

The chart actually says if you go from 20% haste to 25% haste you gain 8.33% damage.
+8% DA is only an 8% damage increase if you have 0% DA to begin with, since DA has diminishing returns the more of it you have. And even if you had 0% DA to begin with, 8.33% is bigger then 8%.


Haste value-----------Increase in attack rounds
20%------------------- 25.00%
25%------------------- 33.33%

33.33-25=8.33

[RAIST]

have to also remember that DA is still dealing with some randomness--it's not a flat pattern that x% DA gives you an extra attack every Y number of attacks to increase your attacks per minute. On the other hand, Haste is a constant increase in your attacks per minute.

[Laraul]

Instead of explain it like the OP which is just a concept, I shall use actual equations to explain how haste works.

Where...

• X=BASE DELAY
• Y=RESULTING DELAY
• N=HASTE MODIFIER

Y = X - X * (N/100)

We know that according to the OP that 33 is the delay reduction, and we know that haste is 25% or 25/100.
X * (25 / 100) = 33

So now we have...
Y = X - 33

Well X must be 132. And you get...
Y = 132 - 33

or
Y = 99
So Y = 99 when N = 25 and X = 132.

I'd like to know how the op got the numbers used for haste of 30% - 80% The math didn't work unless you keep Y constant possibly. So the OP is saying that haste does nothing?

NOTE:
Your base delay (with nothing equipped) is 240. Some weapon gear has a delay less than 240.

[hiko]

I think you didn't read the OP and just the quote, or you just didnt understand anything.

read the OP again, if you still think what you just wrote then go back to school.

[RAIST]

The math can get a bit screwy b/c you are dealing with floored values and number of swings in a set time frame. If you run the numbers on just # swings per minute you can be dropping swings because you can't swing .15 times lol. But if you expand it out longer, you can see how it takes off at a more consistent rate.

The big point to remember about haste is that it is a flat increase to your attack speed, and thus your TP gain. DA works on a different mechanic that is not as consistent in both your attack speed and TP gain.

Edit:
210 delay =3.5 seconds a swing (210/60), 100 swings takes 350 seconds.
10% haste drops delay 21 points to 189 for 3.15 seconds a swing (189/60).
So, in 350 seconds with 10% haste with same base delay, you will swing 111 times (350/3.15=111.111...) for an 11.111...% increase in attack rounds.

[Leonlionheart]

SO in terms that the average player can understand:

Haste > all

stop being stupid and using 24% haste with perle hands/aurore hands when you can cap it with dusk.