Haste and You... A guide to the misinformed.

[MarkovChain]

Leave it to the guy who full times full usukane on MNK to say improving your gear is pointless. lol

Aren't you tired of throwing random and false claims on the forums. Seriously, you mad™. Min maxing in abyssea is really for losers. I can't think of a single normal mob that can survive 1 full Weapon skill which means any WS macro is useless. I'd say 99% of the time you save TP so as not to trigger "ruby" which as a consequence makes haste half as useful as what it should be, since haste no longer affects WS frequency like it should be. The "only" (though still great) benefit of haste is melee-dot-over-time and the lolz about killing a mobs 0.1 faster. Nevermind cleaves and brews where you gear is 100% useless. I forgot to add that 99% of the NMs you do are either done

* Turning your back until yellow is proced,
* Using gimp weapons to trigger red,
* Brewed in pack of 10 for reward/effort efficiency.

To make you rage a little more think about this : If a group A and group B try to build say FULL AF3+2 plus an empyrean, the fastest to get it will be the group that has the most movement speed. Mazurka > march. Discuss.

God I'm glad abyssea is over. Maybe we can use our macros now.

[Arcon]

no because haste and dual wield are not aditive but multiplicative

This. DW3 is 25% Dual Wield. The Calculations are as follows:

Delay multiplier = (1 - Dual Wield) * (1 - Haste) = (1 - 25%) * (1 - 52.5%) = 0.75*0.475 = 0.35625

This value is capped at 0.2 (which equals 80% Haste). So if you are dual wielding weapons with 400 combined delay (~6.7s between attack rounds, prior to any kind of reduction), you would have 400*0.35625 = 142.5 delay, after reduction has been applied (~2.4s between attack rounds).

Note that only (1 - Dual Wield) * Delay is the value that is used in TP calculation, Haste doesn't matter for that at all.

So... your base delay (weapon delay, or 480 + weapon delay in the case of hand-to-hand) is first reduced by Delay reduction gear or Dual Wield/Martial Arts. This value is used to calculate TP gain and Samba efficiency. Then Haste is applied, and the new value is used as your attack speed (delay/60 = time in seconds between attacks).

[Byrth]

No, Samba efficiency (assuming you meant HP drained per hit) is calculated after Haste is applied. Other Samba efficiency (Haste Samba) is just Haste.

[RaenRyong]

Aren't you tired of throwing random and false claims on the forums. Seriously, you mad™. Min maxing in abyssea is really for losers. I can't think of a single normal mob that can survive 1 full Weapon skill which means any WS macro is useless. I'd say 99% of the time you save TP so as not to trigger "ruby" which as a consequence makes haste half as useful as what it should be, since haste no longer affects WS frequency like it should be. The "only" (though still great) benefit of haste is melee-dot-over-time and the lolz about killing a mobs 0.1 faster. Nevermind cleaves and brews where you gear is 100% useless. I forgot to add that 99% of the NMs you do are either done

* Turning your back until yellow is proced,
* Using gimp weapons to trigger red,
* Brewed in pack of 10 for reward/effort efficiency.

To make you rage a little more think about this : If a group A and group B try to build say FULL AF3+2 plus an empyrean, the fastest to get it will be the group that has the most movement speed. Mazurka > march. Discuss.

God I'm glad abyssea is over. Maybe we can use our macros now.

So what was the point of min-maxing in Salvage again? As soon as you can clear it consistently (not hard), it is useless. Gear is 100% useless on cleaves? Yeah, cause Charged Whisker oneshots without gear...

Whatever you like to think, min-maxing still helps a great deal and saves a lot of time. FFXI as a game has never been remotely challenging enough to REQUIRE min-maxing... nostalgia goggles again.

To make you rage a little more think about this : If a group A and group B try to build say FULL AF3+2 plus an empyrean, the fastest to get it will be the group that has the most movement speed. Mazurka > march. Discuss.

That's funny, I would've thought the group that used March on fights and Mazurka in-between would do better.

[Arcon]

No, Samba efficiency (assuming you meant HP drained per hit) is calculated after Haste is applied. Other Samba efficiency (Haste Samba) is just Haste.

I just read the discussion on the wiki page, apparently you're right. Find that weird, I was quite confident it was unaffected by it. I don't even know where I got that from, but I'll test it myself again just to be sure.

[Byrth]

I've replicated their results, if you want to save some time. I'm not sure their formula is exact, but it's a pretty close approximation.

[Babekeke]

melee-dot-over-time

I hate to be pedantic (ok so I don't), but learn what D.O.T stands for!

So... your base delay is first reduced by Delay reduction gear or Dual Wield/Martial Arts. This value is used to calculate TP gain. Then Haste is applied, and the new value is used as your attack speed (delay/60 = time in seconds between attacks).

So using this formula, can a 2H user (aside from drk during last resort) reach the 80%?

(1-[10% Hasso + 3% Sword Grip])*(1 - 76.5 haste) = 0.20445

OK, it's close, but not quite there. Bolter's roll would need to be added with anything but a 9 (unlucky roll) for 2%+.

I don't see any other weapon delay gear on wiki, but there is probably some that isn't linked to the delay page. Not sure if SAM gets any bonus to hasso for extra weapon delay-, but I'm mainly interested for my WAR anyway.

[Arcon]

I've replicated their results, if you want to save some time. I'm not sure their formula is exact, but it's a pretty close approximation.

That's good enough for me then. And yes, the exact amount isn't really relevant, was just not sure if Haste/Slow affect it at all, which, apparently, it does.

[hiko]

I hate to be pedantic (ok so I don't), but learn what D.O.T stands for!



So using this formula, can a 2H user (aside from drk during last resort) reach the 80%?

(1-[10% Hasso + 3% Sword Grip])*(1 - 76.5 haste) = 0.20445

OK, it's close, but not quite there. Bolter's roll would need to be added with anything but a 9 (unlucky roll) for 2%+.

I don't see any other weapon delay gear on wiki, but there is probably some that isn't linked to the delay page. Not sure if SAM gets any bonus to hasso for extra weapon delay-, but I'm mainly interested for my WAR anyway.

hasso is ja haste it is not DR (hasso doesn't affect tp/hit)

and can still add blitzer roll for more DR

[wish12oz]

can a 2H user (aside from drk during last resort) reach the 80%?

March +4 (march+3 instrument, and af3+2 hands) is 15.5% and 12.5% basically, +25% gear haste, 15% spell, 10% hasso leaves you at 78% saddly =|
Depending on how sword strap works, you may be able to cap delay reduction using it, but there's never been any testing done to show if it stacks with haste or works like dual wield and would give you 3% off your new delay after haste is worked out.

Personally, I dunno which is true, I never even thought about it until recently, I always just assumed it stacked with haste until someone tried to say it didn't, but even then, no one has tested it, so no one can say.