Haste and You... A guide to the misinformed.

[Zerich]

Please rename this post to "How to feed TP: For Great Justice".

[Karbuncle]

not sure if troll

[Arcon]

not sure if troll

I vote sarcasm.

[Zerich]

I vote sarcasm.

sarcasm indeed
i agree with most of this thread, just wanted to add a little jab of venom into the mix.

[JiltedValkyrie]

This thread needs a bump. There are too many new/returning players who must read this.

[Washburn]

most people in 26 % haste do it because that 1% haste is better then assuming or testing every piece of gear your wearing to assure its giving you the exact correct amount of haste when you can stick 1% over and be 100% sure.

I'll re-test it tomorrow, but i did testing on drk with newer gear v/s older gear and things like speed belt, wahlara turban, dusk gloves all gave the 60/1024, 50/1024, and 30/1024. All of the af3 i tested, such as bale hands +2, was comong out to actually have 5.11111111% haste. They all added together, but were rounded down to the nearest percent, and no combination of newer gear would go over 26%. So even if you got 25.666666%, it was rounded down to 25%. If someone else wants to check it today, go for it, but I can't log in til tomorrow.

[Frost]

I really should go back to start on this and update the original post. Include Embrava, Desparate Blows, etc.

A lot has changed in the time I wrote this.

[Babekeke]

In the Thief forums there was a discussion (somewhere) that using a 23% haste setup that adds more STR, Att, DA/TA, actually beats any other setup that caps haste (this was before Neo Nyzul, mind).

That setup was:

Empy+2 head, body, hands, legs and relic +2 feet, used with Twilight belt.

I assume that now, Phos +1 belt would beat Twilight, though you'd lose 2% DA for 1% haste.

[Arcon]

It always depends on your total Haste. If you're solo, Haste isn't nearly as important as in group situations, because of more outside Haste sources. Sometimes a certain set will actually beat full Haste alternatives. For example, in his opening post Frost answers the question whether Double Attack is better than Haste with a strong "No". Saying that Double Attack is worse than Haste is an incorrect statement all by itself, the correct phrasing would be "Double Attack is worse than the equal amount of Haste, assuming Haste isn't capped, you don't have negative Haste and there are no other bonuses that enhance your Double Attack". I understand that's a bit of a mouthful, but if you want to go into details, that's what you need to consider. For example, when you're weakened, no amount of Haste will be better than Double Attack. Double Attack +x% (assuming you have 0 before) will always increase your damage output by at least x%. Haste +x% will only do more than that if a) Haste isn't negative (Slow/Elegy, Weakness, Gear, etc.) and Haste is less than x% away from the cap.

Also, Haste on one item doesn't mean much all by itself. More Haste in one item is good, because you can reduce Haste in another slot to make room for other improvements. Take the Phos Belt +1 you mentioned (out of context, in general), it's exactly the opposite: it negates other benefits (the Double Attack +2% from Twilight Belt) to increase total Haste, which can then be offset by another item. Unless that other item offers more than Double Attack +2%, that's not worth it at all.

I currently possess four items with higher Haste than what I use in my TP set on THF for the respective slots. It always depends on the rest of the set as well. Multi-attacks, critical hit rate, critical hit damage, STR, Attack and Store TP can all influence the Haste gear choices. It's rarely as simple as saying Haste beats everything else. That's why I like to say that Haste is both the most underrated and most overrated stat.

[Babekeke]

I currently possess four items with higher Haste than what I use in my TP set on THF for the respective slots.

Similar story here. Haste is incredibly easy to cap on THF, and is obviously a must for utsu macros.

But for TP I drop to 23% visible haste with 12 triple attack and 13 double attack (before traits/merits) leading to 23 of each when /war. My gear isn't perfect either, I need a new earring to replace hollow, a new neck probably, and a new main hand (obviously I main Lux and sub triplus but couldn't get ffxiah to show it that way around).