Increase the base Guard proc rate

[Segasaturn]

I dont see any mention of AGI+ helping Guard im Starting to think i'm teh onlyone who stacks Guard+ and AGi+ on my MNK is that wrong?

[Martinius]

Guard is not in any way affected by AGI. I Spose it gives a slight evasion boost, but that's about it.

As for tanking outside abyssea, I can't think of anything I couldn't tank on mnk. A lot of us who leveled it way before abyssea made our bones tanking in salvage, which is why most of us carry a couple tp sets, ws specific ws sets, MDT sets and so forth. If you can't tank outside of abyssea on mnk, you're either an idiot, a pussy, or your mages suck.

[Segasaturn]

Ok well........as. for mnk tanking kirin I call BS no mnk can tank kirin solo non ZERG. And there is no way A mnk can tank vtra w.o zerg or help of another tank......a lot of the problems with plds tanking. Is most plds suck...pld is a pretty hard job to play in gear gil demand to stay on top along with timing and practice at hate control...its really not fair to bring plds into this on the case that most don't play pld.... guard needs fixing for the sake of being a skill that can be leved without insane grinding for months on end. I have just shy of 240 skill on guard and ever since I got it to 215 its started to work on bigger stuff salvage. Nyzul. All sorts of stuff and I love the skill... just needs to be. More easy to skill up.

[Martinius]

ok a couple of points:

1) i never said anything about solo tanking. you can't change the parameters after the fact. that'd be like having a conversation about mnk/war on rani, and then saying "but mnk/war sucks on azdaja!" you'd be an idiot to solo tank something that can charm, terror and summon mobs (the rare exception being, of course, orobon boss in misareaux, but again, we're talking outside of abyssea, so the only real example is LAC in SSR, where because it spams charm you just kite him until tanks uncharm). the good tanks are the ones who balance hate with their co-tank.

2) why would you ever not zerg kirin? that being said, with a brd, rdm and a couple whms, a mnk could solo tank it. the level correction and a MDT set makes his spells kind of weak... i'd go /nin for breathing room. only dangerous spot is astral flow since it's likely too quick to get MDT set on. even still, mages are in much more danger than a mnk would be. but long fight vs. 30-35 second fights?

3) not @sega, but to someone earlier asking for guard to be shown in the log - guard doesn't function like parry, it functions like shield. it doesn't remove dmg being taken, it reduces down to 0 dmg, but still shown as an attack in the log.

[Segasaturn]

Martinius Re: 1 when your talking about tanking you never mention being apart of a 2 tank system and when you say MNK can tank it's implied that A MNK is tanking the monster for the majority of the time and not passing hate so... if you ment 2 tanks probbly should have said that. the Term Solo-tanking is to define what i mean which is as above a MNK working as the the main tank and not passing hate with a co/2nd voke/ whatever term should be used. I am talking about outside of abyssea......because there are not the same thing being 90 is not gonna make everything soloable by MNK... alot of things yes.... but.. HNMs are gonna still be a threat.
2. RE:Kirin
1st thing is you cant zerg 2-3 Kirin pops in 1 sitting w/o lots of trouble ---

2.2 Ive done butt loads of Kirin zergs when we were 75 and they take alli of Top geared DDs everyones gotta spend money out teh as on meds being Spicific set ups that are useless for other events in sky... now throw in that my LS is mostly made up of friends and family types who... well are not nearly that great ...and Mage support is always light.. and those that are... well.. are not motivated to be on top of the game. with these types a Zerg is a Gamble at best and a crap shoot at worst... can you see why my ls is NOT zerging him?

2.3. you talk about how MNK could tank it right out but... Death hold would most liky 1 shot any MNK in Counterstance and nearly 1 shots me when im not in Counterstance..... maybe i just suck at MNK but ive been Fighting im at 90 and while MNK can now hurt him very well compared to old days... at 90 he still hurts like hell....and the babies are not chickens... they still have 2hours and such...

Last but not least parrying is counted as an Evade by chat filters while guard and shield are hits like normal melee i do still hold to those 3 defensive skills have some similarities..... Shield and Guard are closer though..

[Martinius]

2. RE:Kirin 1st thing is you cant zerg 2-3 Kirin pops in 1 sitting w/o lots of trouble ---2nd. Ive done butt loads of Kirin zergs when we were 75 and they take alli of Top geared DDs everyones gotta spend money out teh as on meds being Spicific set ups that are useless for other events in sky... now throw in that my LS is mostly made up of friends and family types who... well are not nearly that great ...and Mage support is always light.. and those that are... well.. are not motivated to be on top of the game.

ok so much wall of text and a lot of it was nitpicking, so i'm just gonna let it go. that said, i'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you haven't fought kirin at 90. i've killed him w/ 6 ppl (well 7 for TH). mnk/mnk/mnk/brd/brd/smn. one brd soulvoices and does 2 marches, 2nd brd does NQ march + minuet while each brd and the smn haste a mnk. that puts mnk at 100 fists speed w/o having to 2hr. smn pops perfect defense, mob is dead quickly. just add smns for multiple kills, and have an additional brd if you're doing more than 2 (can also get madrigal then). the more ppl you add, the faster it dies... last time we did it w/ the ls, we had maybe 12 ppl, and it was dead in 22 seconds. never even got a summon off (other than astral flow, of course).

edit: also, kirin rarely melees, most of his "swings" are tp moves with a claw or tailswipe every now and then, so don't use counterstance on him.

[Greatguardian]

ok so much wall of text and a lot of it was nitpicking, so i'm just gonna let it go. that said, i'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you haven't fought kirin at 90. i've killed him w/ 6 ppl (well 7 for TH). mnk/mnk/mnk/brd/brd/smn. one brd soulvoices and does 2 marches, 2nd brd does NQ march + minuet while each brd and the smn haste a mnk. that puts mnk at 100 fists speed w/o having to 2hr. smn pops perfect defense, mob is dead quickly. just add smns for multiple kills, and have an additional brd if you're doing more than 2 (can also get madrigal then). the more ppl you add, the faster it dies... last time we did it w/ the ls, we had maybe 12 ppl, and it was dead in 22 seconds.

Not to nitpick, but magic Haste caps at 43.5% so you're really only hitting about 68.5% Haste per Mnk, the third March isn't doing anything for you. SV March x2 with AF3+2 hands, +2 instrument, and 600 total skill caps magic haste without requiring Haste spell. Naked SV March + haste spell will also cap magic haste. Kirin is definitely doable with 7, and it's not like you had any sort of problems with it anyways so it's no biggie. Just a note for future reference, you'll be able to use double Minuets on your second bard in the future.

[Segasaturn]

ok so much wall of text and a lot of it was nitpicking, so i'm just gonna let it go. that said, i'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you haven't fought kirin at 90. i've killed him w/ 6 ppl (well 7 for TH). mnk/mnk/mnk/brd/brd/smn. one brd soulvoices and does 2 marches, 2nd brd does NQ march + minuet while each brd and the smn haste a mnk. that puts mnk at 100 fists speed w/o having to 2hr. smn pops perfect defense, mob is dead quickly. just add smns for multiple kills, and have an additional brd if you're doing more than 2 (can also get madrigal then). the more ppl you add, the faster it dies... last time we did it w/ the ls, we had maybe 12 ppl, and it was dead in 22 seconds. never even got a summon off (other than astral flow, of course).

edit: also, kirin rarely melees, most of his "swings" are tp moves with a claw or tailswipe every now and then, so don't use counterstance on him.

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I fixed my wall of text so should be easy to read...
My biggest problem with Zerging Kirin is the wait before you can do another and my LS only has 1 bard(who happens to be the main WHM)... and only 2 MNKs are Well geared.

i Hate how Zerging things is like playing with Cheat codes in other games... once you do it you never wanna do it any other way....and you cant possible thing outside your Zerg-mind i know its the fastes and now probbly loads more stable.. but still takes teh right set up and sometimes people wanna do it another way? dose that make them Gimp? or stupid?

[Martinius]

you know, it's a fair point, but the reality is, under the "normal circumstances," kirin would probably take 30-45 minutes? it's been so long since i've fought him traditionally. i mean, i remember way back in the day, you had a nin kite him around while rangers wore him down (ranger was my first 75, so that method had a certain nostalgia for me lol). but the reality was that while i stand by my point that you could straight tank kirin solo, you just need so much more support for a kite fight or a non-zerg standing fight.

and i don't really think that zerging is cheat code. i think brewing is the cheat code (albeit a super fun and ruthlessly efficient one), or using the cliff in misereaux to avoid the razed ruin giant or amhuluk's tp moves (before the Z-axis correction), but killing something quickly with a zerg is often the most time efficient (kirin) or safest (DL, marlboro boss in d-valk) way to do it.

as for being gimp or stupid, i wouldn't go that far. i don't know these people who are saying they want to do it the other way. just because mnk x3 (and thanks for that correction on magic haste btw^^) is very strong in a low-man method, wars, drgs, drks, sams... really any job that can do a great deal of dmg in a short burst does well on kirin.

[Segasaturn]

You make a good points all around. With kirin I was always stuck chi blasting or blowing him up with garuda and wind blade before the zergs then I tryed doing different subs for mnk ended up war and boosting to +999 attack and throwing a dragon kick first hit before hundred fists good times.

As for Guard I just wanna be able to skill up the damn thing MNK is already very much a tank in many places itts probly best it isint to powerful with out some sort of draw back.

You wouldn't by any chance be willing to show me a list of good mdt. Stuff mnk can wear?