Increase the base Guard proc rate

[Musahashi]

Ok so on something like Tiamat or Jormungand You're telling me a mnk can straight tank it while taking minimal dmg and keeping hate? And before you try to tell me "WHO FIGHTS JORM DEEEZ DAYS LOL1" these are just examples of difficult monsters which still require or according to you don't require a pld.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's time more people began to think outside of abyssea.

But think of other instances aswell, like dynamis for example, if your gonna go low-man (6-10 ppl) in dyna, you'll probably want someone with high defense to tank so that you can keep moving without having to wait for the mages to rest.

Abyssea, anything can tank, even mages, comparing anything with abyssea is pointless. Outside of abyssea, exp mobs are not worth comparing anything against, since normal exp mobs that people target, are generally fast, easy kills that yield high exp, so yeah... even thf could tank if they wanted to, but Monk tanking difficult mobs? Yeah... right.

[Neisan_Quetz]

By high defense you mean Nin tank for dynamis right (Even war can tank Cities...)? Still didn't need a Pld. Jorm/Tia you could have brought a Drk and still not need a Pld to tank those. Pld was and still is, not needed. Cerb I know for a fact Sam could tank, also salvage/most of Ein and other stuff as well. Pre nerf Rdm too assuming you couldn't melee on the mob. But I digress, if you could melee on the mob, a DD tank is going to be preferable to paladin assuming it isn't being one shotted or massively draining mp (still hard outside abyssea now with the additional refresh all mage jobs have access to in gear and subjob/abilities).

The worse your group/support was, the more preferable Paladin was to tank as a safety net, the better your group/support is, the less preferable Paladin becomes.

[Protey]

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's time more people began to think outside of abyssea.

But think of other instances aswell, like dynamis for example, if your gonna go low-man (6-10 ppl) in dyna, you'll probably want someone with high defense to tank so that you can keep moving without having to wait for the mages to rest.

Abyssea, anything can tank, even mages, comparing anything with abyssea is pointless. Outside of abyssea, exp mobs are not worth comparing anything against, since normal exp mobs that people target, are generally fast, easy kills that yield high exp, so yeah... even thf could tank if they wanted to, but Monk tanking difficult mobs? Yeah... right.

what do you consider difficult... i've tanked almost everything in sky/sea on mnk (Kirin and JoL not very practical to do so, Kirin since zerg and JoL since have to wait for so many iterations of adds while getting nuked)

as for dyna... cities at least i've lowmanned with like 5 people. rdm with blm sub pulls and procs mnk mobs then sleeps. brd to speed things up and help with sleeps. whm. 2x DD. I remember going with a sam and a drg. mind you this was at level 80 cap. at level 90 it should be even easier. Tank, yea right, just destroy stuff. If your mages need to rest... they suck.

[Loir]

Ok so on something like Tiamat or Jormungand You're telling me a mnk can straight tank it while taking minimal dmg and keeping hate? And before you try to tell me "WHO FIGHTS JORM DEEEZ DAYS LOL1" these are just examples of difficult monsters which still require or according to you don't require a pld.

Tanking tiamat and subsequently jorm is pretty easy as any DD mnk and sam would have no issues. Also thanks to the agi=subtle blow, mnk and most DDs extremely shine on things you would not normally like the TP moves from since it would limit down the spam while still doing tremendous dmg.

[Cenz]

I believe a monk that can tank outside of abyssea has major skill... i am rather new to the job and have alot to learn but its not a hard concept to realize that the quicker u kill something the less support and mp pool u need. With that said.... for anything that flies I.E Tiamat Jormy... of course pld is gonna be more productive ... u cant counter there magic attks nor guard them... and a pld will always stand above in these situations b/c they dont need to melee to hold hate. Not at all saying u couldnt tank with another job hell a rdm/nin does just fine....

[Captain]

Anyway since it's pointless arguing with trolls and stupid people, I'm just going to say mnk will never be a better tank than pld outside of abyssea on things which have very high acc/def/eva and why? trouble dealing dmg and taking dmg, pld can take hits, mnk cannot, pld has tools and gear to maintain enmity, mnk does not, this argument is comparing a mnk to pld in terms of tanking outside of abyssea, so abyssea does not count and it's very possible that abyssea will no longer count in future updates when we have to fight things WITHOUT ATMAS and without atmas the game is completely different.

Another thing to remember is the days of lvl 75, when pld WAS the best tanking type there was, this is how it could be when we don't do shit in abyssea anymore, this is the point i'm trying to make. If it isn't going to turn out in that way then, I was wrong, but we'll soon see. /thread.

[Protey]

Anyway since it's pointless arguing with trolls and stupid people, I'm just going to say mnk will never be a better tank than pld outside of abyssea on things which have very high acc/def/eva and why? trouble dealing dmg and taking dmg, pld can take hits, mnk cannot, pld has tools and gear to maintain enmity, mnk does not, this argument is comparing a mnk to pld in terms of tanking outside of abyssea.

trolls and stupid people... so you're referring to yourself. your comments make me wonder if you even have mnk leveled. High acc? MNKs don't care about evading, we want them to bypass evasion so we can counter them to death. High DEF and eva? like what... what outside of abyssea has high defense/eva against a level 90 MNK with food that isn't some gimptard. maintain enmity?... it's called destroying the mob with damage.

[Captain]

trolls and stupid people... so you're referring to yourself. your comments make me wonder if you even have mnk leveled. High acc? MNKs don't care about evading, we want them to bypass evasion so we can counter them to death. High DEF and eva? like what... what outside of abyssea has high defense/eva against a level 90 MNK with food that isn't some gimptard. maintain enmity?... it's called destroying the mob with damage.

Oh dear, it looks like you didn't understand the point of my post, you have even proved this to me by highlighting only the part you wanted to make a stupid and ignorant response to.

This is about the future, OUTSIDE OF ABYSSEA WITHOUT GNARLED HORN AND RAZED RUIN FOR HIGH COUNTER RATE LOL1, see that second paragraph? please respond to it, please tell me about the days when mnk was always chosen to tank JoL or even something as pathetic as Byakko at lvl 75 without atmas. The game hasn't changed as much as you think it has mate, you go into abyssea without using any of the atmas or infact without using gnarled horn and razed ruin and see just how well your mnk can tank then, THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE GAME WILL BE ABOUT OUTSIDE OF ABYSSEA. For the record I do have mnk lvled, it's my main job I'm just not a baby like you are who bites at anyone who talks about mnk. yes talks about mnk not in any particular way just talking about it in general.

[Loir]

There is nothing right now that exists inside and outside of abyssea that is not melee tankable. Pld has no advantage anywhere at this point unless some very drastic changes are made with how dmg creates hate. Not hard to melee tank JoL, wasn't hard to melee tank abyssea when it was only level 80 with the visions zones when you only had 1 atma.

Speculate as much as you want in terms of the future, with your wild ideas that, as of right now, have no basing in the current end game scenarios. Going from the trend of how the level 90 gear has fanned out, you will not see plds tank outside of abyssea. Its only going to happen if there are drastic changes in how hate is generated by all sources.

And for the love of god, pld gets hit from the same amount mnk gets hit for the same amount anyone is going to get hit when they cap out at 50%pdt. I might possibly concede a point to pld in terms of MDT with aegis and shell V allowing you to put nothing but mdeff gear but if they take the same broken approach of trying to create more dmg from spells to players you'll see mobs with MAB through the roof, and at that point the 10 mdeff difference between mnk and pld would be negligible.

[Segasaturn]

I dont see any mention of AGI+ helping Guard im Starting to think i'm teh onlyone who stacks Guard+ and AGi+ on my MNK is that wrong?