Requiescat <3

[Neisan_Quetz]

Rdm healing is fine on old content if properly geared for it and not swinging away with an incorrect subjob.

You know, like something people killed at 75.

I wonder where you'd find a mob like that.

[saevel]

Rdm healing is fine on old content if properly geared for it and not swinging away with an incorrect subjob.

You know, like something people killed at 75.

I wonder where you'd find a mob like that.

Sub has absolutely ZERO to do with cure potency. RDM/WAR heals for the same as RDM/WHM and RDM/BRD.

It's just
Cure IV
Cure IV
Cure IV

We don't have anything else. And if your using a RDM as a main healer then you've already failed.

Plus that entire line of arguments is a trap designed to prevent a RDM from ~ever~ meleeing. It places blame for any and all problems on a single job and ignores all other circumstances. If a particular melee decides they don't want the RDM to ever melee, all they need to do is suicide themselves and then blame the RDM. Any DD worth their weapon can pull hate whenever they want and keep that hate by simply smashing every offensive ability they have. They can also refuse to use any defensive / damage reduction abilities / gear and see how long their healers cure capacity lasts.

Which goes on to a very important factor that all the brain dead idiots are forgetting. Healing isn't just measured in the size of the cure but in the amount of HP per second you can restore. Cure IV + Cure III isn't very much HPPS, Cure V + IV / VI (*shudder*) is much higher and Fruit + Embrace + Cure IV is on par with V + IV spam.

So the day the DD's blame the BLU for not curing them is the day I'll accept the "it's always the RDM's fault" argument.

-=Edit=-
Grammar

[Neisan_Quetz]

No I'm still poking fun at the subjob, you can happily ignore the point about gearing for it.

Rdm is just fine support healing and even main healing some old content.


Holy crap you went on a tangent while this pug was dying. There's nothing wrong with meleeing on old content oor weaker mobs but if you're needed for support do your job. And if you're going to melee for the love of Altana don't be dumb and /war on Rdm. It's cool for most other one handers bar bst because they either get dw while /war or in the case of prd get awesome shields. Rdm can't do either.

If your DD are going balls to the wall and dropping like flies either get better DD, or reevaluate your support.

[SpankWustler]

He edited out the screenshot, but when I looked over it the other day I didn't really see anyone I knew - which can be good or bad, but is probably a bad thing if you're wondering why an Empyrean WS isn't breaking 2k on Chlevnik at 99.

It's one of those things where the answer is known, but that answer is so horrible that I must recoil and question things all the same. Similar to "He built that bicycle out of the twenty-seven children he murdered?!" or "Were you really drunk enough to poop in the sink while vomiting in the bathtub, bro?!"

[Neisan_Quetz]

Seeing as one of the wars looked to be fulltiming twilight head/mail... on Chlevnik... I can easily see ukko's in TP gear doing 2k.

[saevel]

No I'm still poking fun at the subjob, you can happily ignore the point about gearing for it.

Rdm is just fine support healing and even main healing some old content.


Holy crap you went on a tangent while this pug was dying. There's nothing wrong with meleeing on old content oor weaker mobs but if you're needed for support do your job. And if you're going to melee for the love of Altana don't be dumb and /war on Rdm. It's cool for most other one handers bar bst because they either get dw while /war or in the case of prd get awesome shields. Rdm can't do either.

If your DD are going balls to the wall and dropping like flies either get better DD, or reevaluate your support.

RDM is fine as support healer, it's what I do all the time. And yes /WAR is a horrible sub now for any Hybrid RDM, better to be /DRK because at least then you get some utility out of it. Two current favorites are /NIN and /DNC depending on what I'm doing. /SCH for pure support mode when it's called for.

I know it seems a bit much, but I've seen this argument ~way~ to often. It's the DD analog to the "RDM gives the monster +300 defense, +80% haste, +10 levels and -20 TH" argument that gets used. Basically that "any RDM meleeing for any reason will always make the situation worse then if said RDM was standing on the side with their light staff shoved where the sun don't shine casting Cure IV". It's an argument that deliberately over generalizes and appeals to people's desire to accept the simplest reasoning presented to support their own beliefs. And cousin to the argument of "RDM melee is situational, it's useful in any situation I'm not part of".

I'm just cutting it off before it goes anywhere else.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Depends on the player, I certainly wouldn't trust any random swinging away on a job better at standing in the back most of the time. If you can do it and not be a detriment/stupid about it then sure.

[Greatguardian]

If you're actually casting cures, refreshes, and hastes where needed, your overall damage is going to take an epic shit.

Most Red Mages who put a sword on choose to ignore those responsibilities in order to deal more melee damage, which I'm sure we can agree isn't exactly top of the line even under the best conditions.

You're going to have to realize that most melee Red Mages are epic shit, and whenever you say that Red Mage can still cure from the front lines it's something that you'll have to live up to in practice. Yes, you can do it, but it takes a large toll on your total damage count if you're actually keeping up with all of your duties even as a secondary mage.

At that point, yes, on many things you will simply add more to your own workload by taking damage that you have to cure - sometimes, that can even lead to unnecessary deaths or damage because you're having to cure yourself where you could be curing a melee instead. Worse, a proper mage might have to heal you rather than healing a melee, a distinct waste of resources.

It's not just Red Mage that gets allocated to the sidelines in group play, it's any front line job that takes out more than it puts in by being up front. Anything that's safe for a Puppetmaster to engage is safe for a Red Mage to engage. That's about as simple as it can be put.

With that said, I hope that you actually keep stock of your support duties on the front line. You can sit here and preach all you want about how being in sword range doesn't stop you from casting, but it means very little if you don't actually cast. And yes, contrary to the vitriol you spew all over these forums, Red Mages do cast more than Cure 4 and Dia 3. Of course, you wouldn't have access to a good deal of spells with Ninja or, heaven forbid, Dark Knight sub, so you're automatically less useful there. Or did you forget the part where everything worth fighting slams every status effect in the game on you pretty much 24/7?

[saevel]

Depends on the player, I certainly wouldn't trust any random swinging away on a job better at standing in the back most of the time. If you can do it and not be a detriment/stupid about it then sure.

That's the part I disagree with. We're so good at "standing in the back" that we've been declared a dead useless job. Anything your doing in the back as RDM you can do better as a WHM. The time of playing RDM like it's just another WHM-2 was over the moment SE declared RDM wouldn't be getting Cure V. For a couple of years now they've been pushing a hybrid play style that the player base has been stupidly slow at experimenting with. Maybe if people would stop trying to invent new arguments that are just rehash's of old arguments from 2005, and actually try to do hybrid they would see it's actually useful.

RDM has an immense amount of versatility. It's not perfect at any one role but it has access to so many simultaneously. Yes there are times when you need to sit your happy a$$ in the back, and just as often there are times when you need to be upfront. To refuse to do either is not playing to your fullest potential.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I encounter those situation less than you then. Then again I only use Rdm on old content and VW anyway... and I certainly don't trust the groups I go with to even think about swinging, unless I wanted to try and embarrass someone by going 'dude you got outdamaged by my Rdm'