Stop Player Bashing

[Amerlyn]

GG, hes upset at me. B/c i said in my opinion an argument based on laziness is invalid. Thinking it a hassle to turn off/on a filter with a simple command sounds like laziness to me. That if a player is gonna disagree with an idea just because on that detail they should at least argue an alternate suggestion and not just dismiss an entire idea b/c of it. He took offense to my opinion b/c he considers himself in the group i labeled lazy. I apologized for it b/c I not only was i tired when I posted the comment but i was border lined bashing players with my opinion. I tried to continue the conversation with him by explaining my reasoning behind my opinion and by informing him I do not see him in set group (i truely don't). I guess i'm bad at explanations b/c he followed me here to harass me bout it. And obviously didn't except my apology. Feel free to read it though, its the last couple pages of "Server-wide Chat Channel". Wouldn't mind your thoughts on the situation. In the end I gave up on trying to explain my reasoning in hopes he would come to understand i meant no offense. But he continued so I decided to put him on my ignore list.

Although I do appreciate that he didn't name names in the post. He is keeping it civil in here. He also does give sound advice, I have seen some of his arguments on other posts. I agreed with most. So maybe it was the way I handled the situation. If so i do apologize again.

This post is entirely off topic, I do hope they install some kind of messaging system soon so we can kinda keep these threads on topic and take arguements to private.

[Amerlyn]

Off topic myself a bit, but would like to point out that this thread, which was created in the purpose of backing up a set rule is getting more Views than the actual forum rule sticky in this section. 3600 views on my thread, only 243 on the forum sticky. I would think that was an important forum to read. Just felt like pointing out. I know no one is concerned with rules... <.<

[Vinc]

Wall of text.

It's so easy for you to defend a plethora of terrible ideas, and blame the issue with this forum on the "elitist jerks" who have nothing better to do but to put down ignorance.

Only when the good ideas are put down should you jump in and white knight your posters, because when you defend people who are absolutely defiantly incapable of accepting logic (see: beck), you label your opinions as worthless. If you do nothing but attack the individuals who have provided most of the knowledge available about the game, we won't get anywhere. The problem is not only "those elitist jerks", it's everyone suggesting horrible ideas and the people supporting them. It doesn't matter how many good ideas there are, if they are all hidden under a bunch of terrible ones why would SE bother reading through it all? Stop supporting those who make the opinions of NA's look like trash. Those who submit terrible ideas, and refuse to let go of it when reason is given for why it is bad are the problem.

Also, you are correct in saying "seeing how they're all just as bad. BG is completely worthless for finding any kind of useless information".

[Arcon]

The problem is not only "those elitist jerks", it's everyone suggesting horrible ideas and the people supporting them. It doesn't matter how many good ideas there are, if they are all hidden under a bunch of terrible ones why would SE bother reading through it all? Stop supporting those who make the opinions of NA's look like trash. Those who submit terrible ideas, and refuse to let go of it when reason is given for why it is bad are the problem.

Part of the problem, yes, I even said that. But the reactions to those are still inappropriate. As I said, such threads, even if those people firmly believe in what they're saying and try to defend it, die out over time, while good ideas remain and get discussed/expanded. It's already happening here if you look through some job forums.

Also, you're forgetting that this forum just started. Some people who had bad ideas and were holding on to them just collectively signed up and posted them, which made it seem worse than it actually is. I'd give this forum a month or two before I started judging the overall quality of topics on here.

This is all about social behaviour. I'm not saying to attack anyone, not even people who attack you, even if they did deserve it. I know it's hard to hold back sometimes, but how you act is ultimately how people will perceive and respect you. I'm also not saying anyone in this thread or anyone who disagrees with me or whatever are bad, even the people I quoted in my earlier post. Stuff happens, just the way it is. I'm not saying people can't explain stuff to others, but even if they don't want to hear/accept it, and keep insisting on their idea, it's likely no one will take them seriously anyway, so why start being rude to them? Why even argue with them if you know they're not gonna learn? I just don't see how it helps.

This is not about what people do, it's about how they do it. Pointing out (even the most obvious and stupid) flaws can be done in a civilized manner. I don't get why people even bother to reply with "lol" to a post, for whatever reason, this is what I mean by "random posts" which BG is full of, posts that don't contribute anything, for anyone, and are simply off-topic.

Also, you are correct in saying "seeing how they're all just as bad. BG is completely worthless for finding any kind of useless information".

I knew I should have edited that, before someone uses it in a clever argument against me. Point out how information on BG is easy to find, when you look at Advanced and see threads average over 20 pages with 20 posts in each. The search function usually returns useless links of the stuff you want mentioned in passing. You criticise people posting terrible ideas, because good ideas get lost in the sea of garbage. It's the exact same thing on BG, only in bigger proportions, and it's not "terrible ideas" but just random posts, flame arguments, insults, etc. that get in the way of actually reading something you could use.

On here you can often identify good/bad ideas just by looking at the title, which makes it easier to avoid. On BG you find an interesting topic (take the Final Empyrean Armor discussion for example) and you wanna know about some effects on your piece of choice. Now you have to go through (currently) 87 pages, 1732 posts in total, in hopes of finding what you're looking for. Now you'd probably say to use the search function, but try it. Try looking up the actual effect of the THF AF3+2 set, and if you can find good results for that. It also helps a lot that we have job-specific forums here, to avoid clustering.

BG is still ahead in respect to ingame research, and honestly I don't even think that will change (at least not anytime soon), for a number of different reasons. For one, 'cause of the userbase. The majority of people who actually research the game are used to BG, their own environment and people there, and know that other, similar minds, have gathered there, and it's simply the place to get most out of it. Also, most research I know relies on third party software like Windower, Parser/Calculator programs and stuff like that, and I can imagine people wanna avoid discussing results based on those in these forums. Whatever the reason, I doubt BG will lose its edge over these forums on that front.

However, for the casual user, who wants to know something or has an idea/question about anything game-related, this is where they would most likely go, not only 'cause they're intimidated by BG, but also because this is as close to the devs as they will get. And as I said before, there's already been several good ideas I'd like to see the devs implement on here, and they're not hard to "pick out" at all.

[Greatguardian]

Point out how information on BG is easy to find

Random Question Thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/102...Flavor-Country

Anyone can ask anything and it is against forum rules to troll them. Easily one of the best resources for FFXI information anywhere on the net. It is mentioned in huge caps lock bold letters in the forum description and has been sticked for ages.

The massive threads in the Advanced section are not for finding old information, they're for posting new information. The people who are interested in them have either been keeping up with them from the first post or have read from the first post, and the majority of new posts are either new discoveries, testing, or discussion of previous testing/discoveries.

[Anucris]

just gonna say I agree with the OP here. plain and simple. I've even had sarcastic/rude comment on a very normal post I made and its just irritating.

[Dale]

just gonna say I agree with the OP here. plain and simple. I've even had sarcastic/rude comment on a very normal post I made and its just irritating.

Welcome to the world of internet forums Anucris. Don't worry, you will become numb to it after awhile lol

[FrankReynolds]

this thread should have been locked at 1 post. i skipped the other 23 pages just to troll it.

[Captain]

this thread should have been locked at 1 post. i skipped the other 23 pages just to troll it.

And you failed, nice one bro.

[JagerForrester]

Okay I just want to get this out of my system.

Hey, GM, come here for a second. Just for a second.
A GM walks into the thread.

Okay, use common courtesy, or else you're going in time out. Here's is your babysitter.
GM facepalms...