Stop Player Bashing

[Greatguardian]

My problem lies with people being rude to someone even if they don't reply at all. Calling them noobs and stupid, without them ever saying anything again, just for mentioning what they believe, without even trying to spread that to others. And that has happened a lot, in almost every job specific forum I checked and plenty in here too. There's no excuse for that, people need to respect others, regardless of their beliefs.

Having stayed out of most of the job specific forums aside from Monk, I've probably missed most of this. I tend to stick around General Discussion, where for the most part I don't see players getting too disgruntled unless they're on page 2-3 of the same person insisting that "X > Y" when it's easily shown that Y > X.

If a player were to post for the first time in a thread saying something like "I like Askar head", and then not press the issue, I do agree that it would be too harsh to jump on them for it. For the most part, that I've seen, such exclamations are typically answered with something like "Just a heads up, Turban is a lot better than Askar head for damage output." If people want to know, they know. If they don't, they can ignore it and either talk about something else or go to another thread. Starting pointless arguments over little things like that just make it free game, and I suppose I was under the impression a fair amount of people were complaining about being "bashed on" in the middle of such things. Things like Fondle's posts in the Haste thread comparing that mess to psychological abuse just diminish my respect for the legitimacy of many of these complaints.

[Amerlyn]

Wow... my thread really went off topic for a long time.

[HFX7686]

People often don't intend to be rude or offensive, but others interpret it that way regardless. Sometimes your intentions and other people's perceptions differ. Excerpt from the forum rules:

- Since you cannot see each other on the forum, your words may be taken the wrong way or may have a negative emotional affect on others. Please try to maintain a polite manner and review your entry before you post.

People often take things personally when they shouldn't. While this certainly isn't someone's fault for posting (and it's happened in here too), they should still try to put themselves in the reader's shoes and try to see what it may look like to them.

I think that the onus falls mostly on the reader rather than the poster, especially when considering the posts in this thread and the ones in the haste thread. For the most part every reply to Naturebeckles near the beginning of the thread were very polite and just trying to explain why what she was saying was wrong. It was actually her who started the bashing, name-calling, and insulting.

Really, readers have to stop being so darned sensitive to being corrected.

I think that this is something that has become part of our society today. It has become impolite and rude to correct someone, even if they are incorrect.

[Amerlyn]

You can only change yourself.

While I agree with this, I would still like to add to it. Its true only person can choose to change themselves. But that doesn't mean the people around them, what they do, what they say, doesn't effect that change.

I thought about this on my 30 min drive I just had. I agree people shouldn't pass out false information. I agree they should be corrected if they do not know any better. But what I do not agree with is forcing it on them. Belittling a person is not going to to force them to change they're mind. It only serves to vent your own frustration for not being able to change they're point of view. If you really don't agree with what a person says, then challenge them to prove it.. politely. If they are passing out false information that they deem true (no matter what facts you place in front of them), and refuse to believe you, the most you can accomplish to make certain that misinformation doesn't continue to spread (b/c it will no matter how upset you get with them), then just make sure you make a note of it on they're thread. Example: I don't believe this thread to be entirely accurate or true, this is what I believe, here are the facts to prove it. --- B/c really in the end the person who is reading the thread and the comments is gonna be the one to decide which to believe, and no matter how much you complain or how much you scream that is gonna do nothing to change that fact. In the end all you can do is state your opinion/ the facts on this forum, it is up the the reader to decide to follow them or not.

Also from an earlier posting and I agree with her/him. In my opinion people will respond positively if you keep your post polite than getting riled up and belittling and insulting them, all you do is fuel the flames. So just respond politely, argue as politely as possible and if they still refuse to listen then challenge them. If they believe this gear is better, then challenge to try your gear set up. If they still refuse to believe... oh well you tried, any further arguments and insults is pointless, just leave it alone. And if someone happens to read the posting I guarantee you if they read your posts and see u being polite on the subject and the other person becoming hostile, they are more likely to agree with you. On the other hand if your the person being insulting and getting worked up, they dismiss what you have to say and believe what the user has posted. Again this comes down to the simple fact, that you cannot force your opinion (even back by facts) onto people, you can only put out there and let them decide what to believe. So don't get worked up, just move on.

On the note of bashing. Bashing is intentionally insulting or being cruel to another player. You can't help it at times. You will slip up, everyone does. But if you do happen to slip and unintentionally bash someone and they become offended, then apologize to them. Its not going to make you the lesser person because you apologized. Its better to apologize than to fuel a fire you unintentionally set. If you set it intentionally then there is the problem. And I'm sure players will notice and eventually the moderators will too. I'm also certain that if u set it intentionally you probably are going to back it up with "I don't care", if thats the case, then just ignore my posts and move on.

Also, this thread wasn't started to give reasons to break the rules. This was started to make people aware of ways to avoid bashing another player and possibly solve an issue. The rule cannot be discussed, it is a permanent feature of this forum. You either choose to follow it, or don't (in which case you will eventually face the consequences).

I'm not saying I am perfect either. Not saying I am not quilty of slipping up and bashing a player. I am just saying we should strive to avoid this. A perfect example is me and GlobalVariable last night. I was tired, he responded to one of my posts and I took offense over nothing and walked a thin line of bashing him when I replied. After sleeping it off I realized what I had done and apologized to him and reinterated myself to try and explain my reasoning. In the end I also challenged him and others to improve on an idea. Because honestly I felt if they were going to disagree b/c they didn't like one feature of an idea, they should think of a better way to improve on the feature. Don't just disagree with an idea b/c you don't like one part of the suggestion, add to the suggestion. Because all you are saying is "I agree with the idea, but b/c I don't like this part i'm gonna disagree on the entire thing". Improve on it. That was my challenge.

Thats it for me now. I'm off topic. The Topic is "Stop Bashing Players" the idea behind it, is not ways to get away with it (as it seems to me thats what people are trying to argue is a reason to bash players, there is no reason, never). Its ways to avoid it, and if you find u have bashed a player to at least learn to apologize for it.

[Ryland]

People aren't worse players because of the gear they choose. They're worse because of how they play. Whms that don't do anything but cast cure, no matter how great the gear they have on are still bad Whms.

You're right. They should be casting haste too.

[Naturebeckles]

The truth can be read on the haste thread if anybody wants to go read all the nonsense. yes. My first post on the thread was a trollish statement.

But after hours of the arguing, the first person I said sounded stupid was the one who said that anybody who didn't wear haste gear was the same as somebody who wears slow gear. And I said that anybody who agreed with that statement was an idiot. I was trying to keep my cool and argue from experience/perspective for a long time before that point. And reading that as proof that I was stupid as a player for not wearing a bunch of haste gear just pushed that last button of mine. I'm sorry if anybody read my very first post as an insult or as bashing. it wasn't meant to be read that way other than to poke fun at "haste whores". But to outright lie that the troll started name calling and bashing first? That's hilarious. I never once in that entire thread told somebody else that their game play was wrong. I spent that time defending my own decision of game play style, not putting everybody else down.

[HFX7686]

The truth can be read on the haste thread if anybody wants to go read all the nonsense. yes. My first post on the thread was a trollish statement.

So yes, you did in fact initiate the trolling on the haste thread.

But after hours of the arguing, the first person I said sounded stupid was the one who said that anybody who didn't wear haste gear was the same as somebody who wears slow gear. And I said that anybody who agreed with that statement was an idiot. I was trying to keep my cool and argue from experience/perspective for a long time before that point. And reading that as proof that I was stupid as a player for not wearing a bunch of haste gear just pushed that last button of mine. I'm sorry if anybody read my very first post as an insult or as bashing. it wasn't meant to be read that way other than to poke fun at "haste whores". But to outright lie that the troll started name calling and bashing first? That's hilarious. I never once in that entire thread told somebody else that their game play was wrong. I spent that time defending my own decision of game play style, not putting everybody else down.

You advocated a play style that is outright wrong and was proven wrong multiple times by multiple people. At this point you went bonkers and started accusing everyone of bashing you and being a troll because they were explaining why you were wrong. You have equated people correcting your misinformation with insults and put-downs.

[Greatguardian]

The difference between someone wearing 25% Slow and 0% Haste is the same as the difference between someone wearing 0% Haste and 25% Haste, which was his reasoning and is absolutely correct. It's a matter of opportunity cost. It would be like saying "Wearing Morgana's Choker and Meridian ring at the same time is okay in a +HP build because the +HP on the ring cancels out the -HP on the neck." No, it doesn't. You still have 40 less HP than you would have had without the choker. It doesn't matter whether or not your HP is less than your base max HP, it is still less than your maximum max HP.

Edit: So this doesn't start another 20-page crap fest, Nature advocated a *Gearing* style which is wrong. Her actual playstyle hasn't come into play, which I think is the reason she's being so defensive. It's a hop, skip, and a jump for most people to go from "Insisting on gearing incorrectly" > "Not wanting to improve" > "Being a bad player for not wanting to get better", but I don't think that line of thought is being followed by some and it is causing some confusion.

[Naturebeckles]

Edit: So this doesn't start another 20-page crap fest, Nature advocated a *Gearing* style which is wrong. Her actual playstyle hasn't come into play, which I think is the reason she's being so defensive. It's a hop, skip, and a jump for most people to go from "Insisting on gearing incorrectly" > "Not wanting to improve" > "Being a bad player for not wanting to get better", but I don't think that line of thought is being followed by some and it is causing some confusion.

Correct and thanks for posting that. 25% slow + is gear is still swinging slower than somebody not wearing slow or haste gear, which does not make it the same. Just... sayin'.

[Samunai]

i only used twat for a general sense of pointing out to a group of ppl.... more not

for the rest i really gave in some threads my opinion... but again in general senses not directly to one person. =)