New Jug Recipes

[Xilk]

I was playing on the test server this morning. I went to kuftal to try out falcorr and raphie vs some T~VT tigers and worms down there.

I was able to chain kill up to 5 solo w/ very little difficulty. Granted, I was willing to spend a theta biscuit every 3 or 4 fights though... Actually I had to use them more often w/ raphie. Frankly, killing faster w/ falcorr is a better tank. Raphie certainly takes less damage, and if you pop hardened shell, he takes ALOT less damage. but the fights take noticeably longer as well.

FYI, I was able to do 600 damage hit vs VT w/ falcorr using boost. I also did 1100 w/ falcorr using boost on VT tiger when he did a crit hit. I think 1100 from pet ready move on a vt mob is not bad at all outside abyssea.

I was also able to land 2k ruinator (5/5 merits) on the same VT mobs outside abyssea. I was using ferine body, hands, and feet, monster +2 head and legs. I'm sure most here can make a better set for it on live server.

I couldnt' get the 1100 aqua breaths... or anything close... it got resisted too much and only did like 100 damage (I used reward to cap hp right before using it) It was easier to keep hate on falcorr than raphie.

[Sparthos]

So to summarize the new pets:

Raphie sucks.
Mac sucks.
Falcorr wins.
Silas is a confusing mess.

and the new pet food:

Cheap to make, easy for BSTs to farm materials.

[Xilk]

Falcorr is full of win
Silas is a nice throw away jug for linkless pull or farming TE mobs in dynamis (he really is level 99 even though weak, he can rip up ep)
Raphie - Only use in very specific tanking situations...
DapperMac - is a mnk and stun/interupt bot

[Sparthos]

Raphie for tanking? Tanking what?

Eva tanking trumps Raphies face tanking, does more dmg, consumes less biscuits and finishes the battle faster which means lowering the chance of being killed. His breath attack follows the same rules as BLU where any targets worth a damn have some sort of BDT- that causes the attacks to suck.

In a situation with multiple mobs a lvl99 Nazuna handles herself better with access to Sleepga (if applicable) and lower overhead. It seems like Raphie is incomplete to me and he needs something more if SE intended him to be a 'tank'. BST already has lowbie tanking covered with EVA pets.

Admittingly I've only used Mac twice in Dynamis and he seemed unimpressive compared to other DD pets and his Stun costs two charges which makes his ability to Stun costly with regards to time. Is there anything special about him compared to previous Monks besides the Store TP he has?

[Xilk]

wing slap stun duration is affected by tp. thats the 2 charge. beak lunch is really big knockback as well, which will interrupt spellcasting. He has store tp 5 like a sam so his tp fill fast.

Raphie solo's krabkatoa rather well.
If you pop hardened shell and you are wearing pet -pdt gear (48% possible, 40 pretty common) then Raphi will have temendous reduction to even the hardest hitters. I"ve not explored it much, but the potential is easy to see if you've taken raphie out at all. btw, tortoise stomp is -25% attack as well.

hmm next time I test server I'll see about comparing damage taken on raphie for normal hits, hardened shel, and both hardened shell and tortoise stomp. the tigers would be good targets again. they have high attack.

[Mavrick]

wing slap stun duration is affected by tp. thats the 2 charge. beak lunch is really big knockback as well, which will interrupt spellcasting. He has store tp 5 like a sam so his tp fill fast.

From my personal experience (and testimonial from wiki) monsters can cast while moving so knockback would not do anything in regard to stopping spells. If this was true then Blu's Headbutt and Sudden Lunge would always interrupt Magic from all NMs even if the "Stun" effect failed to proc or the NM was immune to stun because both those spells (as well as other blue magic) has additional effect knockback.

Besides, Sheep already has Sheep Charge which is mild knock back as well as Mandragora's Head Butt so it wouldn't have been anything unique. Unless wing slap is special in some other way I still see it as a useless ability.

Also stun is nothing special:
- Dipper stuns, (2 charge)
- Eft stuns (1 charge)
- Raptor stuns (1 charge)
- Lizard Stuns (1 charge)
- Leech stuns (1 charge)

We have all these pets that can stun but when was the last time you saw a BST strategy that involved stunning? Pet stuns simply take too long to use. You first require TP, you then require charges, you then have to see the spell/ability, hit the macro, pet has to ready the ability which generally takes an additional 1s~2s (I have not test wing slap's ready time), then the attack has to hit the enemy...AND the stun effect has to trigger... with so many conditions the only thing you're going to even have a chance of stunning are spells and abilities with very long ready/cast times.

You seem to be pushing really hard for the penguin but I fear it's all for naught. He could have had auto regain 100tp/tick and have all ability costing 1 charge with Yawn and Frigid Shuffle added into the mix and it would still be a useless pet, that's how bad it is.

If I was running things at SE I would've toned down some of those useless traits, dropped his HP, and given this pet some useful support ability to make up for his weak DD potential. It's a MNK pet, so I would've have given him a Yawn type ability that instead granted a sufficient AOE Max HP boost or a Counter/Dodge Bonus to party members in range (no effect on pet himself).

For Turtle, considering his high cost, lack of DD traits, and model of a NM, I would've made him real special and unique. I would've had Harden Shell grant a 90s Sphere/Aura Effect: Damage Taken - 20~25% to nearby party members (independent of the players PDT/MDT cap). Hell, I'd even finally give some meaning to the Beast Strength chart and bumped that up to 30% if the turtle was engaged with a Vermin type monster and add another 5% if Killer Instinct was active... but heh, that's just me.

I'm actually fine with Falcorr they way he is, turned out a lot more useful than I initially gave him credit for. Great for Low level farming so wouldn't really change anything except better access to pet: +Critical, +DA, +TA, +QA gear to make Fantod really shine.

[SNK]

No, it simply reiterates my point that the job is subpar compared to quite nearly any other option at this point in most cases, and the lackluster performance by our jug pets and their cumbersome usage and timer issues is part of that problem.

If you're having a problem keeping a pet alive longer then the Call Beast Timer then I really wonder what the heck you're fighting.

No one will ever ask me to bring BST for just about anything save for less than maybe 3-4 instances of any content outside of soloing that I can think of, and I can't blame them. If you don't see that as an indictment of the current state of the job, I don't know what to tell you other than we clearly disagree.

There's nothing to disagree about. It's like you're upset that your job designed for soloing can't do more party related stuff. It's a solo job and truthfully as SE sees it, it always will be.

As for jugpet cost, they do cost a lot (just because you think 100k for 12 pets is not a lot, doesn't mean it is not a lot to everyone), they take up a ton of inventory space if you actually want to pay any attention to killer traits at all and, I dunno, actually play your job to the fullest.

The way this game throws money at you via curor, Dom ops and whatnot, 100k is really pocket change. Complaining about making money on a job which can make a lot of gil solo shouldn't be an issue. As far as inventory space goes, welcome to every single job in FFXI which has the same problem so it's not like BST is any exception to this.

Not to mention in many cases you get to spend that gil for about 2 minutes before waving goodbye to it as you start up another event.

And I bet you NINs or anyone who subs NIN feels the same way with their Shihei costs. This isn't anything new for any job.

It simply IS a cumbersome and costly endeavor to attempt to be a full time end game BST, even if someone wanted you to be.

How do you think some people who play PLD feel? I don't mean your standard McGimp PLDs but those who carry either relic and emp gear? Cure Cheat Sets, MDT, PDT, Haste, & weapon skill sets? BST isn't the only job that gets loaded down on gear. Some career BLMs alone are pushing the 75/80 inventory slots on their sets alone.

BLUs as well have some stupid amount of gearsets for their spells as well be it from Charged Whisker, Healing, DD, Haste, etc. You get the idea. BST isn't any more special as any other job if you want to gear it right.

And in most cases, the cost/benefit of using the jug pet has almost nothing to do with its utility, but instead with the arbitrary difficulty of obtaining materials to make them, which was my original point.

Making sheep jugs cost me next to nothing because like most people who jumped into their job, it was easy enough to research that having a craft saves a ton of money on this issue. I know some people don't like crafting but those same people are willing to pay a crafter for their time and effort so they can do what they want without having to make their jugs themselves.

The cost vs. utility of most of our jug pets, which we are now basically required to use for almost anything post-75, is completely out of whack.

As much gil as I make with jug pets I see this as a point of view or lack of point of direction of where you're going to make money. Truth be told, you'd be amazed how much people are willing to pay for drops from "older" content. I've been to many different places and walked out with 500k to 800k in a few hours of farming.

I farm almost all of what I use on BST (again, with my THF) and my wife makes them into jugs or pet food. But that doesn't matter, whether you pay gil, or pay time to farm those items (which can range from considerable to ludicrous [see: Abraia]), you are being required to stop what you are doing, with frequent regularity, to obtain that gil or those items.

What you see as a requirement a lot of players see as either something they enjoy or something they know they need to do to get the job done. Then again, I actually enjoy fishing and if that isn't a path to self-punishment for most players then I don't know what is. lol

The only thing that would be comparable for other DD's is if their gear would degrade with use requiring it to be fixed or replaced. Because if you thing jug pets are part of our gear, then I still don't see how that makes the situation better.

A NINs tools are their gears, RNGs use ammo and it's their gear, BLMs pay millions for their scrolls and without them they're worthless. WHMs pay a ton of money for their scrolls, BRDs have to suffer a huge choking of their inventory space as well.

You get the idea.

Jug pets are honestly cheap compared to how much money other jobs throw towards what they want to do.

The thing which I see is bothering you is you want BST to be more then a solo job and while I agree with your feelings on it, it sadly will never be. It's a job where I can either goto Dynamis, Farm NMs, or just help people in lowman events where a BST can really get into their groove and have fun.

BST isn't fun for you anymore so nothing I can say will change your mind but for me and many others who've played this job just as long if not longer then you, it's a blast.

If you're feeling that you're not having fun then by all means go out and enjoy something that you think if fun but don't degrade other folks into enjoying the job as much as they do.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Falcorr is full of win
Silas is a nice throw away jug for linkless pull or farming TE mobs in dynamis (he really is level 99 even though weak, he can rip up ep)
Raphie - Only use in very specific tanking situations...
DapperMac - is a waste of a pet

That's better.

A NINs tools are their gears, RNGs use ammo and it's their gear, BLMs pay millions for their scrolls and without them they're worthless. WHMs pay a ton of money for their scrolls, BRDs have to suffer a huge choking of their inventory space as well.

All of which none in the long run equal the cost to BST.

One of costs for spell - permanent use
90k for 1188 Shihei - With a high rate of not using those shihei, same for Arrows.
100k for 12 pets that last at most 180 minutes, can't zone anyway, are removed before entry to most content.

They are not equal, Money is easy to get but they are not equal in costs to any of the jobs you mentioned.

[Aldersyde]

Falcorr is full of win
Silas is a nice throw away jug for linkless pull or farming TE mobs in dynamis (he really is level 99 even though weak, he can rip up ep)
Raphie - Only use in very specific tanking situations...
DapperMac - is a mnk and stun/interupt bot

Does Ralphie have the innate lightning resistance that adamantoise mobs have? Because when Camate introduced the jug to us, easily smoking thunder-magic-damage mobs was the only use I saw for it.

[SNK]

That's better.



All of which none in the long run equal the cost to BST.

One of costs for spell - permanent use
90k for 1188 Shihei - With a high rate of not using those shihei, same for Arrows.
100k for 12 pets that last at most 180 minutes, can't zone anyway, are removed before entry to most content.

They are not equal, Money is easy to get but they are not equal in costs to any of the jobs you mentioned.

Not once did I mention they were equal. My point I was making that if you want to do your job right then yes you're going to be spending a lot of gil to do it. The idea why I don't see 100k as a problem is it gives me the options to go out and make money without having to split it with other people.

Also keep in mind that 100k a stack of jugs is pretty foolish if you're using it just for that. Going out and making gil can be done very cheaply, *Nazuna* and if you're fighting a NM then you swap out to your money pet and get the job done.

This is easily a point of knowing how you handle your money when it's best to budget yourself when you're farming.

Anyways my point still stands. Every job in FFXI has costs. Be it from scrolls, ammo, NIN tools, or even buying all your instruments you will be spending a ton of money. Find your balance when you're working around costs and whatnot on BST and you'll find yourself making way much more money then you spend to get the job done.