Here is your "Playerbase"

[Chriscoffey]

Not as dense as you may think. FF14's big massive meltdown of a fail launch did not go unnoticed. It forced certain someone to stepped down, apologized and pretty much got a slap in the face publicly - the CEO had to written letter of apologize since it tainted the FF brand name. FF13's linearity and "straight line" dungeons also did not go unnoticed, hence the sequel addressed many of the issues of the original. And if you look at all the expansion released after the "highly lauded" CoP (simply for the fact that 3 years after released only 10% of player base have access to sea) - every expansion after CoP are "more accessible" and catered toward the casual players (let's say a juggernaut named WoW did something to this as well). With the rise of casual gamers from Wii, facebook, and mobile devices, SE will have to take into account on the shift in the gaming landscape. No doubt Abyssea probably was created in respond to this and so far has been extremely well received - except by those who wants "more hamster wheel grinds" and fight mobs that are "super hard" (have tons of HP and one shot you over and over).

You honestly have no fucking clue what you are even talking about when discussing end game. Your idea of 7+ years of playing something is zerging it down in 4 minutes so you can watch another episode of Jersey Shore apparently.

While that type of play can very well be kept I rather fight something that takes longer to kill myself with no zerg available and teamwork alliance fights "end game". There was way more teamwork involved before abyssea even after SE overpowered the jobs way past the HNM scene. They never added challenging fights and just allowed everything to be easier and easier. I have argued both type of playing can be maintained, however, your type of player base believes they are entitled to everything without the actual challenging factors involved.

I tried Wow out for a week because Ireek (Carbuncle) one of the developers swore it would blow me away with how the game was. That game to me was total fail to anything i was looking for. I guess what i am trying to get at with your type of game play is this concept. The idea that you need a strategy guide before you even play a game because it is too hard to comprehend the basics by yourself. The idea that there has to be cheat codes and "easy mode" so you can feel a sense of self accomplishment and entitlement to things others have taken time to understand better.

If you want FFXI to be what everyone wants why does it seem like every post made brings that entitlement that the game should cater around your "fun" but for someone who desire a bit more in depth end game mechanics we should be thrown out or forgotten about. Why does teamwork with 18 people scare the living shit out of the casual player base where you can't zerg it down in 1 minute or so? I said the game should be both and i agree its better for casual playing after abyssea and a good change. I just don't think this game should always center around that.

I have been buying Square games since FF1 on NES when it came out. I think i should have some damn say so as to what I like in a game and it sure as hell is not zerg mode on everything.

[Eric]

You honestly have no fucking clue what you are even talking about when discussing end game. Your idea of 7+ years of playing something is zerging it down in 4 minutes so you can watch another episode of Jersey Shore apparently.

While that type of play can very well be kept I rather fight something that takes longer to kill myself with no zerg available and teamwork alliance fights "end game". There was way more teamwork involved before abyssea even after SE overpowered the jobs way past the HNM scene. They never added challenging fights and just allowed everything to be easier and easier. I have argued both type of playing can be maintained, however, your type of player base believes they are entitled to everything without the actual challenging factors involved.

I tried Wow out for a week because Ireek (Carbuncle) one of the developers swore it would blow me away with how the game was. That game to me was total fail to anything i was looking for. I guess what i am trying to get at with your type of game play is this concept. The idea that you need a strategy guide before you even play a game because it is too hard to comprehend the basics by yourself. The idea that there has to be cheat codes and "easy mode" so you can feel a sense of self accomplishment and entitlement to things others have taken time to understand better.

If you want FFXI to be what everyone wants why does it seem like every post made brings that entitlement that the game should cater around your "fun" but for someone who desire a bit more in depth end game mechanics we should be thrown out or forgotten about. Why does teamwork with 18 people scare the living shit out of the casual player base where you can't zerg it down in 1 minute or so? I said the game should be both and i agree its better for casual playing after abyssea and a good change. I just don't think this game should always center around that.

I have been buying Square games since FF1 on NES when it came out. I think i should have some damn say so as to what I like in a game and it sure as hell is not zerg mode on everything.

Yes. I understand now. Making the final weapon skills stronger than their non-merit counterparts is obviously a cheat code for "easy mode".

[Chriscoffey]

Yes. I understand now. Making the final weapon skills stronger than their non-merit counterparts is obviously a cheat code for "easy mode".

No, you apparently don't because at no point in that entire topic did i even mention the weapon skills. I was replying to the "player base" that always wants the easy way out. If i mentioned anything about weapon skills please correct me, however, I would imagine that involved reading it "in a bit more detail" which is something none seem capable of now hence why I'm tired of the "easy mode" philosophy logic.

This topic has been beat to death a million times on here. What I get pissed at is "casual " players going crazy that the more hardcore older players enjoy a bit of a challenge for true end game. What we get is some zerg crap because they don't come up with better ways to involve the alliances to work together. What we have is end game from VW being a few procs then zerging which is absolutely no fun to me in the least anymore. No one that is hardcore enjoys 18 hour fights from PW or AV but we expect more than consistent zerg marathons where any moron with enough cannon fodder can kill it.

If you are in the group we consider casual players then i salute you to enjoying the game. I even recommend SE cater some game play to your enjoyment. What I don't approve of is the selfish behavior that because my alliance or LS group can kill something they should nerf it down so much that you (because you don't intend to learn to play better with a team or alliance) can and without the "super hard" HNM enemies be added for my group.

I work everyday through the week and I don't have much time to play FFXI anymore but if I do get online to do end game i expect to be pushed to my limits not kill something in less time than it takes to make popcorn with my LS.

[xbobx]

No, you apparently don't because at no point in that entire topic did i even mention the weapon skills. I was replying to the "player base" that always wants the easy way out. If i mentioned anything about weapon skills please correct me, however, I would imagine that involved reading it "in a bit more detail" which is something none seem capable of now hence why I'm tired of the "easy mode" philosophy logic.

This topic has been beat to death a million times on here. What I get pissed at is "casual " players going crazy that the more hardcore older players enjoy a bit of a challenge for true end game. What we get is some zerg crap because they don't come up with better ways to involve the alliances to work together. What we have is end game from VW being a few procs then zerging which is absolutely no fun to me in the least anymore. No one that is hardcore enjoys 18 hour fights from PW or AV but we expect more than consistent zerg marathons where any moron with enough cannon fodder can kill it.

If you are in the group we consider casual players then i salute you to enjoying the game. I even recommend SE cater some game play to your enjoyment. What I don't approve of is the selfish behavior that because my alliance or LS group can kill something they should nerf it down so much that you (because you don't intend to learn to play better with a team or alliance) can and without the "super hard" HNM enemies be added for my group.

I work everyday through the week and I don't have much time to play FFXI anymore but if I do get online to do end game i expect to be pushed to my limits not kill something in less time than it takes to make popcorn with my LS.

I mentioned this before, but people like you are hypocrites. You go on and on about not wanted easy mode, yet you will only hunt with specific jobs to make the fight as easy as possible. So how can you complain about easy mode when every elitist I have ever seen in the game constantly looks for the easiest way to beat a NM.

[Chriscoffey]

I mentioned this before, but people like you are hypocrites. You go on and on about not wanted easy mode, yet you will only hunt with specific jobs to make the fight as easy as possible. So how can you complain about easy mode when every elitist I have ever seen in the game constantly looks for the easiest way to beat a NM.

I am trying to understand how you can even come across that I'm a hypocrite. The example i always make of your type of players are the ones that were still taking 30 minutes to an hour to beat Fafnir when any good end game LS i was in did it in mere minutes. Your group uses people as cannon fodder to beat something then complain it's too hard knowing full well others are doing the enemies just fine.

You expect entitlement to everything even things of which you apparently lack the ability to try to understand better to kill. So what you have so far is calling me a hypocrite because my group will try to find the best approach to a mob to kill compared to your group saying all things should be just zerged down. I think the hypocrite is your groups logic.

Compare it with WoW stuff where endgame you had 25 people coordinating an assault, jumping over flames at the same time, 25 peeps get out of AoE at the same time then get back on, run out of the thing on the floor thats going to kill u etc.

I won't go out and say everyone that plays Wow did this but in my experience with end game Wow people they couldn't work together on FFXI. They bitched the most about experience loss, running places, etc. They never could work their jobs dynamic well in alliance fights. I can't really compare because i started Wow when it was in it's hard stage because of Ireek and that game was just way to easy to me after being on FF hard days. FF has changed so much I can't even begin to compare end game now to what it was like before. This gimmick fight technique was more chipping a mobs HP away. I wish they would have an anniversary type event on the test server and make it where its exactly like it was in different years: 03, 04, 05, 06, etc. I could see if people still think the game was just as easy as now since they believe themselves to be that much better.

[xbobx]

What I am saying Chriscoffey is, it is the elitist are the ones that did the throw All sams at it, or blms or rngs, whatever the job of the day was at that time. They ignored the drgs, the pups, the blus etc, because they didn't want to try ant beat it with a balanced party, they wanted to make the fight easy.

[Aldersyde]

I am trying to understand how you can even come across that I'm a hypocrite. The example i always make of your type of players are the ones that were still taking 30 minutes to an hour to beat Fafnir when any good end game LS i was in did it in mere minutes. Your group uses people as cannon fodder to beat something then complain it's too hard knowing full well others are doing the enemies just fine.

You expect entitlement to everything even things of which you apparently lack the ability to try to understand better to kill. So what you have so far is calling me a hypocrite because my group will try to find the best approach to a mob to kill compared to your group saying all things should be just zerged down. I think the hypocrite is your groups logic.

You know why your ls could down nms in minutes while it took others 30? Experience. Preparation. Preparation in gear, research, strategy, making that strategy happen by bringing the proper jobs in proper amounts. You know, looking for the easiest, most efficient, hassle-free way to kill mobs and get loot.

Unless you started the game very recently, everyone started by throwing bodies at things because there was a time when people didn't understand the game's mechanics and had absolute trash gear. I remember when nms were taken down with an aerial armor rotation for the tank. I remember when accepting a wipe from kirin's astral flow was pretty standard. But tactics change. Gear gets better. Now people zerg Kirin in 2 minutes or less. That's not people shouting for easier mobs, that's people getting better at the game and actually progressing so that their characters are stronger.

Your ls wasn't blessed by some MMORPG god that allowed you to exceed the power of mere scrubs. Your group worked towards that point by getting better gear, putting effort into leveling proper jobs and merits, and doing research. You (and everyone really) were standing on the backs of people who came before. Yes, you looked for the easiest way to do to it, like most everyone else did. I think the real hypocritical part comes when 'leet groups look down on the 'scrubs' taking 30 minutes to kill a mob, when there was a time your group was likely at the same stage of starting out.

[Rampage]

Im sorry but zerging a mob down or just trying to survive while a mobs hp goes down isnt strategy. Even if it is hard.

Most mobs in FFXI dont require strategy, but that doesnt mean it has to stay that way. For players to create strategy you have to place obstacles that they can clear in different ways. How the players decide to clear those obstacles is what is strategy.

But guess what, if the best way for your players to overcome the obstacle you put in their path is to put DoTs on the mob and run around for 45 minutes, to try and "One shot" zerg it in 1 minute or die, or try and get the mob stuck or exploit some other glitchy phenomenon in the game then obviously you are not creating a challenging and fun dynamic.

thats why I say have triggers for weaknesses that are only useful if players are coordinating well.

2 person SC trigger >> debuff mob 1 min duration: "no AoE tp moves" (If your melees are good and they can keep trigger happening they can stay on the mob)
Magic Burst trigger >> debuff mob 1 min duration "Magic Burst damage increased by 40%" (again mages have to coordinate with melees, if they can keep MBs happening they keep their bonus)
3 person sc trigger >> debuff mob 1 in duration "Lv 3 Skillchain Damage increased 25%"
Magic Burst on a 3 person SC >> debuff mob 1 min duration "MB damage increased 60%"

all of these buffs arent worth anything if people cant keep the coordination up, but if they can it makes taking down a mob that much easier.

And have specific triggers at "narrow" windows drastically alter NM behavior in some way.

Any of these things promote coordination and teamwork. The better organized you are the easier the mob is. Obviously you can get really complex and maybe need one team in case the trigger is a darkness SC or a light SC etc. Or have some mobs only lock certain AoE moves etc.

Think FFXIII where you had to "stagger" a mob to get a window of doing good damage, VW and synchronic blitz is a step in the right direction. But it should be more complex than just a lucky stagger.

[Mirabelle]

I mentioned this before, but people like you are hypocrites. You go on and on about not wanted easy mode, yet you will only hunt with specific jobs to make the fight as easy as possible. So how can you complain about easy mode when every elitist I have ever seen in the game constantly looks for the easiest way to beat a NM.

This so much!!! All the elitists go into every fight with elite gear, best atmas and abyssites, top weapons, elite "blue box onry" party members, then decry how easy things are to beat.
I've had plenty of challenge in this game largely based on not really caring if I had the best gear or not or if my party members were the best in the game. Basically relied on using sound strategy and team work to get victories. Its made for some fun and challenging fights over the years. And as for Abyssea, yes it got easier as you advanced with gear and atma. But it wasn't easy at the start. It tooks months of slogging to develop a well geared/atma'd job, let alone several jobs. I see nothing wrong with that approach. Its far more rewarding than the endless time sink of VWNM with no quests or stories or variety of activities that Abyssea offered.

As for the original OP, yes the new merited WS should beat level 60 WS when fulled merited. Several do, but they all should in reality. Save the other WS for proc use only. Every job should have a high powered magical WS, a high powered physical WS and a decent enfeebling WS to be used as its major WS core. Presumably those WS should come from newer WS. And relic, empyrean and mythic WS should all either be better or at least on par with significant benefits of use (aftermath, hidden effects, etc).
Why SE needs to make things so complex with adding useless things all the time, I'll never understand. This game is far too full of bloat these days.