New Job Trait: Limber ("Tactical Evade")

[Deadvinta]

I don't really like this, especially if Ninja gets it.

TP for being hit, TP for parrying, TP for evading, TP for hitting.

[Krashport]

I do agree with you Deadvinta, I don't really like it as well, Would be a bit much.

[Asymptotic]

I set the activation rate pretty low for that exact reason. Most enemies attack with 240 delay, or once per 4 seconds:
So even at the maximum 20% chance I have set obtainable naturally, since evasion caps at 80%, you'd only be activating 16% of the time.

Assuming the monster is attacking with 240 delay (once per 4 seconds), it would take 1250 seconds (20 minutes) to see a full 100TP come from this JT.

In the ~30 seconds it takes to get 100TP for a fast attacking job like DNC or NIN, you'd only see, on average, 1 activation of Limber (assuming capped evade rate) - a meager 2TP contribution.

Other stipulations I'm considering for this Job Trait:

1.) You must be engaged to receive the bonus
2.) When multiple targets are attacking, the activation rate is halved for each additional target (flooring at 1%). From a "lore" standpoint, it's because multiple attackers would be distracting. From a balance standpoint, it's to prevent large TP gains from holding multiple enemies.
3.) Limber should have 100% activation during Perfect Dodge.

Notes:

1.) I've given DNC the highest tier for the same reason DNC has the highest tier of Tactical Parry - it's the most TP reliant job.
2.) I've not given THF the highest tier specifically because THF is the most evasive job (in other words, a THF has to make fewer offensive sacrifices to maintain a high evasion rate), although I'm considering giving it Tier III in my design.
3.) My other idea was to leave THF at Tier II naturally and provide it with JSE gear to allow it to match DNC in it, with interesting bonuses specific to THF:

Fingerless Gloves (Hands)
THF 98
Attack - 5 Evasion + 10
Limber + 3 Limber: Critical Strike (After limber activates, your next regular melee attack will be a critical hit)

Thoughts?
(Updating first post with this information)

[Gaiben]

I really don't see where your coming on this one. The reward and disadvantage of evasion is that no one gets TP, attacker or defender. Now imagine if you gave this quality to an NM, or even better an NM with perfect dodge... The idea of tactical parry, tactical guard, critical defense bonus, ect. traits were to give something new but standard for 75+ jobs. The jobs you are saying should get this needless ability already have such traits and more.



Also in your "best evasion jobs" you missed Samurai and Monk, where monk can easily equal Puppetmaster's evasion, and Samurais forget they have evasion because they were too busy zerging.

[Asymptotic]

The idea of tactical parry, tactical guard, critical defense bonus, ect. traits were to give something new but standard for 75+ jobs. The jobs you are saying should get this needless ability already have such traits and more.

I usually try to avoid being rude, but were you going to make a logical argument or something? It sounded like you were trying to, and then just stopped cold. "I don't think this is needed" isn't a valid logical argument. Justify why you think it would be overpowered, broken, or alter job balance, if you want to contribute to the discussion. I've deliberately set the bonus to be quite small, and I've provided numbers to show that. Your argument about "the advantage and disadvantage of evasion is that neither party gets TP" is invalidated because the same can be said for Parry.

Now imagine if you gave this quality to an NM, or even better an NM with perfect dodge...

Sounds fun. It's a lot better than the +10/ric regain that a lot of NMs have. Also, it's not like you can't turn around during perfect dodge, you wouldn't be hitting it anyway ;/

Also in your "best evasion jobs" you missed Samurai and Monk, where monk can easily equal Puppetmaster's evasion, and Samurais forget they have evasion because they were too busy zerging.

SAM and MNK do not get Evasion Bonus traits. PUP is naturally more evasive naturally than MNK due to this fact.

[Krashport]

Justify why you think it would be overpowered, broken, or alter job balance, if you want to contribute to the discussion.

I would say giving Auto-Regain 1/tic and getting that Regain+1/tic earring would be better off I think, waiting 20mins for 100TP not many stay in one zone that long unless it's in port Jeuno.

Parrying, Player "Action"
Shield blocking, Player "Action"
Melee, Player "Action"
Guard, Player "action"
Damage, Where there's an action, There is a reaction.
Evade, Opponent misses you or you miss opponent.

Edit: Let say Mob1 was "Meleeing" Mob2 where Mob1 "MISSED" Mob2 didn't throw feathers nor fart in their direction, Mob1 is just gimp and their "Action" Failed Visaversa.


After all any job can and will evade, Its just some are kinda... "Mastered" it better then others.

[Asymptotic]

Of course auto-regain is better. This ability isn't supposed to be as powerful as auto-regain or anything like that. Also, the fact that we have to INCREASE our "Evasion" stat (To evade: "To get away from by artifice; to avoid by dexterity, subterfuge, address, or ingenuity; to elude; to escape from cleverly; as, to evade a blow, a pursuer, a punishment; to evade the force of an argument.") Implies that evading can be an action.

The simple fact that increasing your evasion and decreasing the opponent's accuracy have the same exact mathematical effect implies that mobs both MISS and we DODGE.

[Deadvinta]

I don't really like this, especially if Ninja gets it.

TP for being hit, TP for parrying, TP for evading, TP for hitting.

I wasn't aware Ninjas used shields.

[Krashport]

I wasn't aware Ninjas used shields.

oh my bad Deadvinta, I thought ya was quoting all possible TP actions, not just Ninja it self.

[Urteil]

Not giving Thief the highest tier of this would be like giving DRK tactical parry at all.

Oh wait.


Don't be a fool, don't encourage dev stupidity.

THF Tactical Evasion max tier. Derp.