Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[macross]

385 coins per run with 3 people is highly unlikely and everything going to you. I farm Dynamis most days with 2 very very good players (sometimes 3 others) and 385, while possible isn't happening every single day. I also would feel very selfish taking every single coin for 40 days straight.

So when did you really start your bow and how long did it really take?

You must not read BG, you would see a lot of my posts there. I 3 box, and my highest 1 day total is 720 coins. So yes they all go to me. 40 days 3 boxing, kinda slow but that's my pace. A real trio could pull in over 400 very easily. Heck my bst friend consistantly pulls in 200 a day solo. Even the most gimpest bst could pullin 150 day np. 3 months or so to solo a relic with a bst/dnc avging 150+ a day. If i were really hard core i would go 3x a day with 1 bst each time and pull in 450-600 coins a day.

As for colliex and your gsword, you still didn't say how long your game day is, and how many people helped you farm it. Also that's one of the easiest empys to make all the way to 90.

I must say my ukon was pretty easy, felt like i sneezed and got it too, just be cause my whole ls helped to make it. If i had to 2-3 man the whole thing then hell no It would not be a sneeze and voila type deal. 18 people x how many hours, that's alot of man-hours. If 18 people went into dynamis seperately and farmed 150 coins each, a relic would be completed every 5 days. Heck if dynamis wasn't a 2 hour event, could make a relic in 1 day with 18 people farming the whole day.



OP topic: relic 99 ws need to be buffed:
my reply: why do they need buffs, they are easy to make?
Others replies: no way! relics are hard, they deserve to be best!
my response: no, they are in fact the easiest, with explanations why.
Kitkat: wut, I got no answer to your points, I will just say you're trying to troll.

Anyhow, if they actually make the relic 95-99 trial a challenge, then hell yes they deserve a buff. There's still a bunch more 95 relic and mythics than there are empys, even though the trials have been out the same time, and there are alot more empys than relics and mythics.

[Economizer]

Being someone who actually farmed an entire relic on his own in 40 days

No doubts, no accusations. How'd you do it?

All the Dynamis guides I've seen have been subpar in one way or another for the Dynamis changes, and someone with actual experience giving a run down would be very nice.

-

Anyways, to get back on topic, I'd like to talk about one part of what I think is wrong about Relic weapon skills. They're all over the place!

Some are powerful and some are weak. Generally, the aftermaths should all fit the same amount of power. Look at them, I think it just gets more and more absurd, and even most of the good effects are still stuck at level 75 scaling.

Apocalypse/Catastrophe - 10% gear haste.

Mandau/Mercy Stroke - Improved Crit Rate

Ragnarok/Scourge - Improved Crit Rate.

Bravura/Metatron Torment - Lowers damage taken from enemies.

Spharai/Final Heaven - Subtle Blow

Kikoku/Blade: Metsu - Subtle Blow. Side Note: WS Animation shows four hits, WS does one.

Yoichinoyumi/Namas Arrow - Improves Ranged Accuracy.

Mjollnir/Randgrith - +20 Accuracy.

Annihilator - Coronach - Lowers Emnity. WS has set enmity value.

Amanomurakumo/Tachi: Kaiten - Store TP +7.

Guttler/Onslaught - Increases Attack.

Claustrum/Gate of Tartarus - Refresh 8MP/tic for 20 seconds per 100TP.

Excalibur/Knights of Round - 10HP/tic for 20 seconds per 100 TP.

Gungnir/Geirskogul - Shock Spikes.

Lots of things could be done with these things, from plain scaling them up to not suck to making them ignore certain caps. A low end version of this would be the Subtle Blow effect weapons ignoring the cap, and maybe even getting increased Subtle Blow. Considering there is a new WS with Plague as an effect, it might even work to make them feed no TP whatsoever. A more extreme version would be having the accuracy affecting aftermaths ignore the accuracy cap along with scaled increases - a player with the right setup would never miss. Perhaps these ideas would go to far, but the bottom line is that these need to at least be brought in line with higher levels and each other, let alone other superweapons.

[Runespider]

I must say my ukon was pretty easy, felt like i sneezed and got it too, just be cause my whole ls helped to make it. If i had to 2-3 man the whole thing then hell no It would not be a sneeze and voila type deal. 18 people x how many hours, that's alot of man-hours. If 18 people went into dynamis seperately and farmed 150 coins each, a relic would be completed every 5 days. Heck if dynamis wasn't a 2 hour event, could make a relic in 1 day with 18 people farming the whole day.

Relic now, is easy (farm CoP ares if you want big coin counts and can take the daily boredom). Emp is laughably easy (not so much when they were released but they sure are now).

Only hard one is mythic and I'm posistive they will make them easy to get too soon.

OP topic: relic 99 ws need to be buffed:
my reply: why do they need buffs, they are easy to make?
Others replies: no way! relics are hard, they deserve to be best!
my response: no, they are in fact the easiest, with explanations why.
Kitkat: wut, I got no answer to your points, I will just say you're trying to troll.

Emps ARE easier than Relics to make still (unless you think FC&killing some easy nms for KI and Glavoid etc are hard?), and quicker but people want relic WS to be more inline with what emps can do, not better. My Emp WS numbers crap all over my relic, especially on stuff that matters.

Keep in mind some people arguing about difficulty probably made them when they took years to make (mine took 2 years), emps have always been quick to smash out..even with 5-6 people.

[Werewolf]

I love how people say relics are easy, sure maybe now they are but not when cap was 75 and you could only enter 2 days a week plus the glass cost 1 mil each run... anyone that did relics that wasn't linkshell made pre Dynamis nerf had it much harder.

Being someone who actually did that and did all the Relic Magian Trials also pre nerf (yeah 2k weaponskill kills suck) I feel a bit ripped off, but that's Final Fantasy XI for you these days.

And back on topic they need a boost, I really don't care how much they nerfed Dynamis these days but the weaponskill should at least be on par with Empyrean ones.

[Unleashhell]

OP topic: relic 99 ws need to be buffed:
my reply: why do they need buffs, they are easy to make?
Others replies: no way! relics are hard, they deserve to be best!
my response: no, they are in fact the easiest, with explanations why.
Kitkat: wut, I got no answer to your points, I will just say you're trying to troll.

Do you need Hooked on Phonics or something? What part of the topic are you not understanding? This is NOT about how easy they are to make. Its about weaponskill vs. weaponskill, if you actually think relics are the easiest to make your in a fantasy world (no pun intended). Ever single reply you do says the exact same thing, relics are easy blah blah blah. And again, going off topic of weaponskill vs. weaponskill.

How are you going to sit there and say a level 85 Emp weapon that can EASILY do more weaponskill damage then a level 95 Relic, a 10 level difference, be acceptable just cause you think relics are easy to make? You gotta be joking....

[Selzak]

I don't think it's fair to say that 3-boxing something is a legitimate aspect of the game. If you can do it in a short(er) amount of time by 3-boxing, that doesn't necessarily mean it's easy.

I solo'd my Caladbolg, and I'm in the process of soloing an Apocalypse. The Apocalypse is a lot more difficult to make, and it's value is a lot higher too. For instance, if you buy Chloris pops for 1,000,000 gil each, you'll be done around 35,000,000 gil into it. Just straight buying an Empyrean would cost at the very, absolute most imaginable around 70,000,000 gil. That's (and we're assuming a very, very high price IMO) about half the cost of a Relic.

[Chriscoffey]

Do you need Hooked on Phonics or something? What part of the topic are you not understanding? This is NOT about how easy they are to make. Its about weaponskill vs. weaponskill, if you actually think relics are the easiest to make your in a fantasy world (no pun intended). Ever single reply you do says the exact same thing, relics are easy blah blah blah. And again, going off topic of weaponskill vs. weaponskill.

How are you going to sit there and say a level 85 Emp weapon that can EASILY do more weaponskill damage then a level 95 Relic, a 10 level difference, be acceptable just cause you think relics are easy to make? You gotta be joking....

It's the same reason everyone that did empyrean were saying relics should be left to old content and not touched again. They don't want anything coming close to their epeen numbers for how easy it was to make them. I think they are both easy to make but since this guy already upgraded Uko. to 95 I already know why he's defending this train of thought. It just makes you wonder why they say these things YET, before the dynamis changes, they were arguing to forget about people who have done relics or their time sink involved.

Apocalypse/Catastrophe -10% Own haste w/ 5% going past Haste cap.

Mandau/Mercy Stroke - Improved Crit Rate

Ragnarok/Scourge - Chance of any GS WS to Critical while aftermath is up+ Improved Crit Rate.

Bravura/Metatron Torment - Lowers damage taken from enemies.

Spharai/Final Heaven - Subtle Blow

Kikoku/Blade: Metsu - Subtle Blow. Side Note: WS Animation shows four hits, WS does one.

Yoichinoyumi/Namas Arrow - Improves Ranged Accuracy.

Mjollnir/Randgrith - +20 Accuracy.

This would tickle me to see warriors emo crying, however, the GS would be a bonus to them.

[Kitkat]

Already answered you Macross, you're the only one caught up on "Which is harder to make and more deserving?" Your perceiption is the only thing that blocks any of the reasons I've posted as to why the changes to relic need to be made, and absolutely none of them had anything to do with "they are so hard." They had to do with comparisions to all other weapons with additional effects, all other weapons that can deal double, or more, damage, and all other weaponskills that exist in the game.

Your explanations are so open to interpretation they show a perceived biased. You constantly attack people who get them done in 2-3 days with "you must have 16 hours a day to play" which according to your "it takes 80 hours total to make a relic" there is no relevance since it is total time to complete. The NM-VNM trials all take less than 6 hours a piece if you kill the placeholder, never saw any NM take longer than 2 hours max to respawn with a total time of 90minutes on average before NM was out again. By your reasoning, I can negate these respawn wait periods because they are "restrictive limits that prolong the actual time spent doing the work" this then makes the trials take less than 20-30 minutes total for duration of fights up past the VNM trial stage.

Now we are at the 50x 50x 75x trial, and for this I'll use one of my LS members who is making his 3rd emp and on average has less than 4 characters for pop sets, 2 of which are his. The weapons done are Gaxe and H2h, one of the more time consuming ones to make due to pop-sets, and all took less than a total of 75 hours, and yes...both are lvl 90. The 3rd is gun, which once it is 85 makes completing any other emp a total joke. Getting 200k for cruor is easier than you make it sound also...less than 2 hours of my time and I can get 200k cruor via alternating mob type kills, heck I can do this while skilling up a job. Now, before you pull the "16hour a day" card: he works a full time job during the week, and who knows what he does on weekends, but is afk more than he is online doing anything (most times he comes back drunk). So there goes your reasoning there.....moving on.

Now, being that VWNMs drop the plates, and anyone with a void stone can participate with a chance at treasure pool, this means there is a potential of 18-50 per fight which can be pooled into one person. Now, by your reasoning, this can be negated to being "easy" because they can be traded/bought and falls fully on you if the people you do the VWNM with expect you to pay for the ones they get. 95 trial then becomes akin to currency collection by becoming reliant on others or having the gil to buy them straight out.

Now that I've humored you, I'm done with you. There is nothing here that is any different than your argument because I used all your same tactics by negating wait times since they are down time/restrictions/inactivity, and even used the lowman completion of parts, and then applied the same reasoning you give currency collection to HMP collection. Thing is, none of this explains why relic shouldn't be fixed to react like all other weapons or weaponskills. How "hard" emp or relic are to make is an irrelevant factor when the problem isn't that at all, it is the uniqueness of the weapons/ws that is the problem. Now it is your turn to humor me...

I would like to see a 12~20% activation rate on hidden that is per attack, not per round so that double attack and triple attacks have a chance for ODD or OTD to proc on them as well.

I would like to see the weapons react to TP differences other than aftermath duration because other weapons with aftermath already get longer durations and still have scaling TP modifiers.

The tacked on 25% bonuse lvl 90 relics got barely makes up for the 3.0ftp across the board...cause now it is just the WS damage equation with a 1.25 multiplier at the end. They should have gone back and added TP modifiers at this point, not a 25% boost.

All relics are 1 hit wonders.....why is it some of them look like multiple hits and still maintain a 1hit nature? More so, these weapons are mostly 1hander weapons, only 1 is a 2hander. Dagger looks like a 4 hit WS, Axe looks like a 5 hit, club looks like a 2 hit, polearm looks like a 2 hit, katana looks like a 4 hit....but they are all really just 1hit. Can't be due to their 3.0fTP, because Emp WS have 2.25-3.75fTP modifiers and still maintain multiple hit status while also getting modifiers that increase their chance to crit, do more damage, or ignore defense.

Explain how these are "crazy boost" request in comparison to how every other weapon/WS in the game works.

[DrStrangelove]

Changes to some (not all relics), just the ones I've seen or used

Six of the biggest problems with relic WS are:

1) fTP does not scale
2) some of the WS mods are weak (e.g., INT)
3) some of the AM are weak (e.g., shock spikes or choke)
4) some of the AM hit caps (e.g., haste, subtle blow)
5) some of the underlying weapons are themselves weak (e.g., gungnir)
6) some make no sense (hello, claustrum)

Apoc-If the haste is not allowed to exceed the normal haste cap, then this should be changed to a different strong DD effect (e.g., ODD, occas. attack 2-3 times, attack boost). Fix mods (INT/AGI) and change INT to at least STR or DEX.

Annihilator-Coronach should either scale in damage after 100tp (from 3.00), or have the modifier bumped to 4.00. It's not bad as is, but mobs have much higher HP now, so a modest change is warranted. Lower enmity for aftermath is fine as is. In addition, change mods from AGI/DEX to STR/AGI like Yoichi. Coronach should have no distance penalty.

Yoichi-Namas same as above. Higher ranged accuracy for aftermath is fine as is. Scale WS mods or bump base to a static 4.00. Namas should have no distance penalty.

Gungnir-remarkably underpowered and beaten by a WOE weapon. Sad. The WS needs to be drastically upped to offset this debacle. Changing mod from 60% AGI is one step. AM (shock spikes?). May be make AM: e.g., wyvern does double/triple breath damage or just give DRG added DD AM. Raise base fTP from 3.00 to 4.00 or scale.

Ragnarok-difficult issue since it's somewhat a stepchild for WAR, DRK and PLD. The addition of an Impetus type affect along with it's current effect probably won't help much. A chance to crit WS would probably be the best solution. Scale TP or increase base to 4.00.

Excalibur-needs dramatic changes to be viable

Bravura-Metatron should get the same TP scaling or a bump to 4.00. No other changes needed and AM is fine.

Amano-see Bravura. Scale or 4.00.

Guttler-AM is choke. Very very poor. If we really need to go that way, make it silence, blind, slow and paralyze with separate modest proc rates on VT mobs. Or change to better ODD AM, or add a strong pet DD as mentioned for Gungnir. Add 15% attack bonus to Onslaught, make it critical and let it scale. Much better.

Kikoku-Change Metsu to 4.00 or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR magical and physical evasion(+25%).

Spharai-Change Final Heaven to 4.00 and or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR increased DA rate (+10%).

Claustrum-(/sigh). Fix the underlying weapon. Fixing the WS is like putting whipped cream on a patty.

I don't think these make relic WS better than empy WS in Abyssea (which bothers me), but it makes relic WS viable outside on strong mobs.

[Unleashhell]

Changes to some (not all relics), just the ones I've seen or used

Six of the biggest problems with relic WS are:

1) fTP does not scale
2) some of the WS mods are weak (e.g., INT)
3) some of the AM are weak (e.g., shock spikes or choke)
4) some of the AM hit caps (e.g., haste, subtle blow)
5) some of the underlying weapons are themselves weak (e.g., gungnir)
6) some make no sense (hello, claustrum)

Apoc-If the haste is not allowed to exceed the normal haste cap, then this should be changed to a different strong DD effect (e.g., ODD, occas. attack 2-3 times, attack boost). Fix mods (INT/AGI) and change INT to at least STR or DEX.

Annihilator-Coronach should either scale in damage after 100tp (from 3.00), or have the modifier bumped to 4.00. It's not bad as is, but mobs have much higher HP now, so a modest change is warranted. Lower enmity for aftermath is fine as is. In addition, change mods from AGI/DEX to STR/AGI like Yoichi. Coronach should have no distance penalty.

Yoichi-Namas same as above. Higher ranged accuracy for aftermath is fine as is. Scale WS mods or bump base to a static 4.00. Namas should have no distance penalty.

Gungnir-remarkably underpowered and beaten by a WOE weapon. Sad. The WS needs to be drastically upped to offset this debacle. Changing mod from 60% AGI is one step. AM (shock spikes?). May be make AM: e.g., wyvern does double/triple breath damage or just give DRG added DD AM. Raise base fTP from 3.00 to 4.00 or scale.

Ragnarok-difficult issue since it's somewhat a stepchild for WAR, DRK and PLD. The addition of an Impetus type affect along with it's current effect probably won't help much. A chance to crit WS would probably be the best solution. Scale TP or increase base to 4.00.

Excalibur-needs dramatic changes to be viable

Bravura-Metatron should get the same TP scaling or a bump to 4.00. No other changes needed and AM is fine.

Amano-see Bravura. Scale or 4.00.

Guttler-AM is choke. Very very poor. If we really need to go that way, make it silence, blind, slow and paralyze with separate modest proc rates on VT mobs. Or change to better ODD AM, or add a strong pet DD as mentioned for Gungnir. Add 15% attack bonus to Onslaught, make it critical and let it scale. Much better.

Kikoku-Change Metsu to 4.00 or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR magical and physical evasion(+25%).

Spharai-Change Final Heaven to 4.00 and or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR increased DA rate (+10%).

Claustrum-(/sigh). Fix the underlying weapon. Fixing the WS is like putting whipped cream on a patty.

I don't think these make relic WS better than empy WS in Abyssea (which bothers me), but it makes relic WS viable outside on strong mobs.

Now this is what I'm talking about. Great feedback, thanks.