Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[Prothscar]

Problem being that people love to ignore the utility aspects of relics and what they offer to them/their group compared to an extra 1000~2000 or so damage on their weaponskills.

[Insaniac]

I think we are on the same page then GG. I agree that a global buff for relics would be asinine because it would break some and leave some in the realm of garbage. I even said that a few pages back. My mandau for instance is well balanced with Twashtar and needs very little. I would most like to see WS damage scale with TP and I would like my 3x damage to proc on additional hits. Beyond that it's fine. The relics that get to use their WS really don't have much to complain about and I have never truly complained about my Mandau. I really don't think anyone made the argument that all relics suck but that's what some people seem to think we are saying. This thread started with the intent to get peoples opinions on individual relic WSs and what they needed/wanted but like all other relic related thread sit got hijacked and turned into a relic vs. emp (hey what about mythics) thread.

Problem being that people love to ignore the utility aspects of relics and what they offer to them/their group compared to an extra 1000~2000 or so damage on their weaponskills.

I think a lot of people are overstating those effects as well.

[Kitkat]

@Insaniac

That is why it is a medium ground for ODD, the adjustments were meant to show that the possibility to go higher or lower exist for emp, but that even with hidden adjustments relic hidden did not compare because it is a low percentage constant static. In current status it shows this even more by being restricted to the first hit (a point we both agree on). People like to use very small windows to express overall performance, I was merely allowing for instances that fall outside of those windows because they are inconsistent variables that do change depending on situation and circumstance.

Nothing I said shows that is the over all average as each situation changes the average, just that it was a possible medium. Even with this assumed medium it doesn't negate the fact that relics still need adjustments since at this range of medium emp still come out on top, especially so in ideal circumstance. The primary reason for a 60% adjustment was to show that is how much it would need to be adjusted on average, all the time, just to eve consider that the change to relic hidden to become "too strong." As you stated, this is not an over all average, but it is a possiblity I wanted to touch on to show just how much of a difference there is between the ODD aftermath and an always active hidden.

Just because it is always active doesn't mean it is equal or even close to ODD aftermath unless you put strict limiters on it. I also wanted to account for the few emp that have WS that aren't ideal for use. Being in an LS were you see both relics and emps everyday, the middle ground has to be established if you want to even hope to have a worth while standing (unlike those who want to hijack the thread and use highly situational comparisons).

And at this point my cold is messing with my train of thought so I'm not sure if I make total sense the entire time here....

[macross]

I wish currency was 11-8k on bismark...funny how i've had my currency for less than that in my bazaar for 3 days now with 0 purchases. Maybe you need to play more and see all the shouts selling it for 5-7k now. All you see is the overpriced currency like I have in my baz and assume that's the going price. The stuff you see in rollanmart is the stuff people didnt buy! Just cause I put it at 10k and you see it doesn't mean that's the going price. It's there cause its not 8k and instantly purchased. If I put a HMP there for 200k, would you assume that's the going price too?

Relics don't cost 130-200m, mine cost me 0 gils. It only costs if you buy it. It's easily soloable.

And OP, I just finished my 75 relic (yoichi), so am I allowed to post now?

Bravura vs Ukkos, bravura will win when you are soloing mobs, so that's one case where bravura is stronger.

Twilight torque is 5% dt, not 10%.

Easy to farm HMP by spaming VW huh? I've done over 600 VW battles, over 200 Qilins alone, only gotten around 200 hmps ever. Unless you had crazy ammounts of CP and AN like me, or blow 20k gil per voidstone buying them, good luck spamming VW. I've spent all my free daily stones, 850k cp, 300k AN so far buying stones. The avg player has no where near that much to spend. I had the money, it still took me 1 month to find enough HMP to buy. I only had around 100 HMP i got from vw myself when I completed it, and that was with very little competition. Alot of people are buying them up now, and less and less doing t3 VW. Getting to be like alex, but not as bad.

Come tomorrow we'll have 99 available. Let's see how many 99 relics there will be vs 99 empys.

In a zerg situation, a bravura keeps up with Ukon easily. First off all when you zerg you will use sekkanoki, you won't ws at 300%. Well maybe you would, I don't. I'd rather pump out 2x 5k ws instead of 1. Dot dmg on both weapons is on par, I've parsed many zerg battles with 95 ukon vs 95 bravura. You'd be surprised. Heck apoc dot dmg keeps up with ukon easily. You normally see big numbers with ukon when blood rage and zerk is up. When it's down both ws are comparable, but ukon still easily stronger.

Anyhow you should have 1 war with brav 1 with ukon in your alliance, or one guy with both lol. Go make an ukon instead of whining. Or make that almace instead of the excalbur if all you care about is dps. My ls leader has all 3 weapons, and both shields, using them based on the situation and battle. I never hear him whining about how this suck and that sucks.

[newmonkey]

@Macross - considering the final upgrade for relics is higher than mythics i doubt were going to see any 99 weapons for a while unless its something silly for both like weapon kill shots again.

I think you must be the only guy i know who soloed his relic without buying any currency, grats to you on that but not many do and as for your currency remark, it sells really fast on my server for the prices i said and likewise the same on valefor were i have a alt.

Were going in circles here anyway so im done with this topic until after the update.

[Insaniac]

If you use 130 mil worth of currency to get something it still cost you 130 mil because you could have sold it and had 130 mil. Even if someone randomly walked up to you and gave you a relics worth of currency which you used to get a relic instead of spending months farming it, it still cost you 130 mil. Please never say relics are free ever again.

[macross]

That logic works both ways. Empys should cost millions too, because you could have sold those soulstones and t3 vnm spawns instead of making your ochain or harp? Could have sold all the glavoid shells moth wings and orthrus claws to buyers as well, thus ukon costs millions as well? Exping isn't free cause you are taking someones leech spot worth 200k?

If you won a relic from the moogle lotto, is that free then? Or should you have taken a 10000 currency and sold it?

Just cause others pay 130m, doesn't mean that's what it costs. I spent 0 gil on it, thus it's free. All it cost me was time and my monthly fees.

[Insaniac]

@ Macross

I wrote something up but it timed out and I lost it but basically yes, You are right. Anything that results in you not obtaining gil is the same as it costing you gil.

[Insaniac]

*New Magian trials for Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons have been delayed to allow time for proper balancing

to allow time for proper balancing

[size=12]balancing[/size]

[size=30]BARANCE!![/size]

invisible!

[macross]

Just because you need 1000 item for relic doesn't mean it's harder. Likely the empy upgrades come from VW, whereas you can probably farm many of the relic upgrade items in dynamis every day. Now if they made all of them drop from VW, then relic will be harder. I'm assuming that's not the case. Neither upgrade items are rare or exclusive as well.

I'm pretty sure i'm not the only person to have farmed a relic. It's so easy people don't talk about it since they don't want it nerfed. I've got quite a few friends who farm along with me that are almost done with theirs too.