Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[Werewolf]

I love how people say relics are easy, sure maybe now they are but not when cap was 75 and you could only enter 2 days a week plus the glass cost 1 mil each run... anyone that did relics that wasn't linkshell made pre Dynamis nerf had it much harder.

Being someone who actually did that and did all the Relic Magian Trials also pre nerf (yeah 2k weaponskill kills suck) I feel a bit ripped off, but that's Final Fantasy XI for you these days.

And back on topic they need a boost, I really don't care how much they nerfed Dynamis these days but the weaponskill should at least be on par with Empyrean ones.

[Selzak]

I don't think it's fair to say that 3-boxing something is a legitimate aspect of the game. If you can do it in a short(er) amount of time by 3-boxing, that doesn't necessarily mean it's easy.

I solo'd my Caladbolg, and I'm in the process of soloing an Apocalypse. The Apocalypse is a lot more difficult to make, and it's value is a lot higher too. For instance, if you buy Chloris pops for 1,000,000 gil each, you'll be done around 35,000,000 gil into it. Just straight buying an Empyrean would cost at the very, absolute most imaginable around 70,000,000 gil. That's (and we're assuming a very, very high price IMO) about half the cost of a Relic.

[Kitkat]

Already answered you Macross, you're the only one caught up on "Which is harder to make and more deserving?" Your perceiption is the only thing that blocks any of the reasons I've posted as to why the changes to relic need to be made, and absolutely none of them had anything to do with "they are so hard." They had to do with comparisions to all other weapons with additional effects, all other weapons that can deal double, or more, damage, and all other weaponskills that exist in the game.

Your explanations are so open to interpretation they show a perceived biased. You constantly attack people who get them done in 2-3 days with "you must have 16 hours a day to play" which according to your "it takes 80 hours total to make a relic" there is no relevance since it is total time to complete. The NM-VNM trials all take less than 6 hours a piece if you kill the placeholder, never saw any NM take longer than 2 hours max to respawn with a total time of 90minutes on average before NM was out again. By your reasoning, I can negate these respawn wait periods because they are "restrictive limits that prolong the actual time spent doing the work" this then makes the trials take less than 20-30 minutes total for duration of fights up past the VNM trial stage.

Now we are at the 50x 50x 75x trial, and for this I'll use one of my LS members who is making his 3rd emp and on average has less than 4 characters for pop sets, 2 of which are his. The weapons done are Gaxe and H2h, one of the more time consuming ones to make due to pop-sets, and all took less than a total of 75 hours, and yes...both are lvl 90. The 3rd is gun, which once it is 85 makes completing any other emp a total joke. Getting 200k for cruor is easier than you make it sound also...less than 2 hours of my time and I can get 200k cruor via alternating mob type kills, heck I can do this while skilling up a job. Now, before you pull the "16hour a day" card: he works a full time job during the week, and who knows what he does on weekends, but is afk more than he is online doing anything (most times he comes back drunk). So there goes your reasoning there.....moving on.

Now, being that VWNMs drop the plates, and anyone with a void stone can participate with a chance at treasure pool, this means there is a potential of 18-50 per fight which can be pooled into one person. Now, by your reasoning, this can be negated to being "easy" because they can be traded/bought and falls fully on you if the people you do the VWNM with expect you to pay for the ones they get. 95 trial then becomes akin to currency collection by becoming reliant on others or having the gil to buy them straight out.

Now that I've humored you, I'm done with you. There is nothing here that is any different than your argument because I used all your same tactics by negating wait times since they are down time/restrictions/inactivity, and even used the lowman completion of parts, and then applied the same reasoning you give currency collection to HMP collection. Thing is, none of this explains why relic shouldn't be fixed to react like all other weapons or weaponskills. How "hard" emp or relic are to make is an irrelevant factor when the problem isn't that at all, it is the uniqueness of the weapons/ws that is the problem. Now it is your turn to humor me...

I would like to see a 12~20% activation rate on hidden that is per attack, not per round so that double attack and triple attacks have a chance for ODD or OTD to proc on them as well.

I would like to see the weapons react to TP differences other than aftermath duration because other weapons with aftermath already get longer durations and still have scaling TP modifiers.

The tacked on 25% bonuse lvl 90 relics got barely makes up for the 3.0ftp across the board...cause now it is just the WS damage equation with a 1.25 multiplier at the end. They should have gone back and added TP modifiers at this point, not a 25% boost.

All relics are 1 hit wonders.....why is it some of them look like multiple hits and still maintain a 1hit nature? More so, these weapons are mostly 1hander weapons, only 1 is a 2hander. Dagger looks like a 4 hit WS, Axe looks like a 5 hit, club looks like a 2 hit, polearm looks like a 2 hit, katana looks like a 4 hit....but they are all really just 1hit. Can't be due to their 3.0fTP, because Emp WS have 2.25-3.75fTP modifiers and still maintain multiple hit status while also getting modifiers that increase their chance to crit, do more damage, or ignore defense.

Explain how these are "crazy boost" request in comparison to how every other weapon/WS in the game works.

[Coldbrand]

All these AGI INT etc. mods for DRK and DRG should go period. STR is where it's at.

[Atomic_Skull]

All these AGI INT etc. mods for DRK and DRG should go period. STR is where it's at.

You can say that about every WS though. If every physical damage WS had the optimal modifier then every WS would be STR modified.

That's why Mercy Stroke was the best dagger WS for so many years, out of all dagger WS it was the only one with a large STR modifier. Twastar only beats Mandau because of ODD and because Rudra's has a larger fTP and scales with TP.

If they follow your advice every single physical damage WS would basically be the same WS with a different animation, unless you're saying that DRK and DRG should get special treatment.

[Coldbrand]

You can say that about every WS though. If every physical damage WS had the optimal modifier then every WS would be STR modified.

That's why Mercy Stroke was the best dagger WS for so many years, out of all dagger WS it was the only one with a large STR modifier. Twastar only beats Mandau because of ODD and because Rudra's has a larger fTP and scales with TP.

If they follow your advice every single physical damage WS would basically be the same WS with a different animation, unless you're saying that DRK and DRG should get special treatment.

No not really, they might as well make every mod STR since whichever WS does have a STR mod is most likely to take over as the best WS. It's not exclusive to those two. I just know about Geirskogul and Redemption offhand.

[Creelo]

Yes, relic WSs need to be reworked.

And Gjallarhorn should get its own song (Ex: Massacre Elegy) <.<

:X

[Cljader1]

Yes, relic WSs need to be reworked.

And Gjallarhorn should get its own song (Ex: Massacre Elegy) <.<

:X

I agree with this, there should be a special relic song added too this horn. Adleast SE said there looking into further enhancement to make to the weapon

[Kitkat]

~Rolls eyes~ You must not know how to do math very well if you think raising ftp to 4.0 makes it stronger than emp. Getting on at around 4pm my time and usually getting off around 10 or 11pm, his weapons are done in roughly 4 days up to 85 easily. Gun he started on Wednesday, it's 85 as of Friday night. I already humored you and answered every question you asked in prior post. You've yet to humor me without being sarcastic, or you compare the weapons on other weaponskills and ignore points brought up. So like everyone else is doing at this point, I'm ignoring you, just like you ignore any argument of substance.

[Crysten]

Relics need to be looked at from a broad perspective; not just the WS. Remember these weapons have hidden effects, additional effects and in the case of 2H weapons, a 20% 2-3x damage proc without the need for a constant Aftermath.

If you're asking for Relics to be the best from every regard, you're being dumb. If you're asking for Empyreans to be the best from every regard, you're also being dumb. The only weapons that even deserve the "time > difficulty" argument for them are Mythics. Period.

Relics, as a whole, have become much more viable and powerful since the 95 update, and really, who knows how Relics, Empyreans and Mythics are going to compare until the update hits.

As it currently stands, there are some weapons that are gonna be absolutely freaking broken should you increase the base WS damage to that of Empyreans. Amano, Apoc, Excalibur, Bravura and Annihilator immediately spring to mind for this. Amano was already very much on par with Masamune on lower defense mobs, Apoc is already DRK's best scythe as it is, Excalibur has it's HP > damage ratio, Bravura allows a full PDT build in full Haste and Annihilator has the utility of having it's enmity supression.

There are of course relics that could use adjustments to make up for crappy aftermaths (hi Gungnir) and mage Relics just need a bloody slap in the face, but looking at the bigger picture, I feel relics are based more on utility and Empys are based on pure damage.

Also, if you're comparing 99 Relics, you need to compare the 99 Empyrean equivilent. Until next update, we still don't know if there'll be any adjustment to the way an Empy becomes fully upgraded. You never know, Empys could have little to no improvement from 90-99, whereas relics could have an amazing hidden effect we have no idea about in addition to the Afterglow, whatever that is.