Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[Coldbrand]

All these AGI INT etc. mods for DRK and DRG should go period. STR is where it's at.

[Economizer]

I'm mainly focusing on the Aftermath for what I'm talking about, but I think talking about other factors is good too:

Apoc-If the haste is not allowed to exceed the normal haste cap, then this should be changed to a different strong DD effect (e.g., ODD, occas. attack 2-3 times, attack boost).

I don't think it will ever be able to hit the Haste cap, and attack 2-3 times is a mythic thing. On the other hand, changing the haste to its own category (or at least magic cap) that can help hit the total Haste cap would help. It would be very risky for having it compare to other damage weapons to break the cap period, but being able to hit the Haste cap without a Bard or Dancer on hand would still be incredibly powerful.

Annihilator-Coronach should either scale in damage after 100tp (from 3.00), or have the modifier bumped to 4.00. It's not bad as is, but mobs have much higher HP now, so a modest change is warranted. Lower enmity for aftermath is fine as is. In addition, change mods from AGI/DEX to STR/AGI like Yoichi. Coronach should have no distance penalty.

The no distance penalty thing for the WS sounds good. If people judge the aftermath as fine, then it probably is - I know that my issue I had was looking at stuff like this and Catastrophe and thinking "Why aren't the rest of the aftermath effects as good as these?"

Ragnarok-difficult issue since it's somewhat a stepchild for WAR, DRK and PLD. The addition of an Impetus type affect along with it's current effect probably won't help much. A chance to crit WS would probably be the best solution. Scale TP or increase base to 4.00.

Excalibur-needs dramatic changes to be viable

The aftermaths on these are pretty terrible in general. Definitely need improved versions. If shockspikes is going to be kept, then it should have a near 100% stun rate in addition to the massive damage we only see on NMs.

Regen... if that's going to be kept, it should be something absurd like 100HP/tic.

Kikoku-Change Metsu to 4.00 or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR magical and physical evasion(+25%).

Spharai-Change Final Heaven to 4.00 and or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR increased DA rate (+10%).

These are very easy, just increase the cap for these weapons, and maybe increase the effect to scale with level.

Personally, I think the accuracy affecting aftermaths should make missing a near impossibility if not an impossibility, but that's just me.

[macross]

Again, seems just asking to make relics stronger than empy, while retaining their special properties. I agree some need work, but so do some empys.

Apoc, let's make this do mega dmg, while keeping the haste and life steal.
gun, let's make this do way more dmg, but keep the -enmity, and heck let us melee and shoot it too!
Bow, let's make this do way more dmg, but keep the -enmity, and heck let us melee and shoot it!
Bravura, lets make it do as much dmg as ukko, but keep the super tanking dt AM.
Amano, alreayd as good as masa or better, so let's make it better for sure!
Guttler, whatever bst doesnt need a weapon. If anything let it help your pet instead of doing mega dmg.
Katana, Let's make it stronger in abyssea. Guess what, hi sucks ass outside abyssea. Relic already better using jin.
sphrai, let's make it as good a VS, but let us counter near 100% too! Better still we won't have to rely on impetus to make it uber.
Staff, whatever

Relics already have built in dbl triple dmg, without even relying on AM.
Relics already are good vs strong mobs. Not as high dmg as some empys, but you got the other special to make up for it.
Maybe you guys are just playing in abyssea and feel your relics suck? cause they do, INSIDE abyssea. Outside, they are good enough.

Do some VW and compare how relics do, they do just fine and dandy. Relics still are the highest base dmg weapons in the game. You can always use the new WS with them as well, where as you cannot with empys as you lose their AM. Only good empys are gaxe, bow, gun, gkt, and h2h, sword. Go watch blade hi hit for 75 dmg on qilin lol. Come level 99, you will be using lvl 99 relics, vs people with lvl 90 empys cause let's face it, not many can or will upgrade empy to 95.

And kitkat, how long did your ls mate take to finish his ukon and h2h? you said 4 man mostly, 75 hours. Did you count the time he spent doing the 25+ NM's beforehand? 600 coins a day, 2hours a day. Yep easily make a relic in under 75 hours, if 4 people went in and farmed 2 hour a day each, and gave all the currency to you. Again your friend is probably underestimating his time spent, time kinda flys fast.

Economizer, bst/dnc is best to farm with, using a ladybug pet for th. bst will outdmg a thief, plus bst is great for getting the Time Extensions. biggest impact on coins is how fast you can get the 5 time extensions. Team up with others then split up after you get them all is best if you can. secondly it's how much competition you have. You can solo 150 coins a day with a perle wearing bst with crappy AH bought weapons. People even lvl up brand new mules to farm dynamis more than once a day. Gear up the bst more and you can hit 200 a day.

That being said, I tried out many combos of jobs, before settling on dnc dnc bst. This relies more on getting 100's to drop with lucky white procs. You can still easily avg 400 a day using 3 jobs/dnc to proc then finishing with strong dd like blu or sam.

I realize some took many years to make their relics, but some didn't. Some make their empys in days, while others take months. All boils down to how hard is it make now, not then. Empys used to be damn hard to make too, it's why i have a lot of woe weapons because empys were just too hard to make back then. Used to take months to get to 75 too, now it takes 1 day. Just because you lvled the hard way long ago doesn't mean you deserve to be better than someone who lvls in 1.

I"m not putting down relics just cause I've upgraded my empy to 95 either. Both were easy to make. Both empys and relics have shitty weapons and good weapons. If bravura starts doing more dmg then ukkos, then what exactly is the point in making ukko. One tanks better, one dps's better. they are balanced. same can be said for h2h. sphrai tanks better, vere dps better. gun and bow, relic survive better, empy more dmg. Getting killed is 0 dps. Surviving and doing less per hit is better than dying.

For relics being so hard to make, empys should be a breeze, so why complain at all, just jump on the bandwaggon and make one no? The jist of the matter is people relics want to feel special, not run of the mill. Want something rare to brag about, but since they suck not, there's nothing to brag about, so is some butthurt there. Empys felt special back when they were hard too. Heck I remember making my WOE h2h soon as lvl 85 was out, and blowing peoples minds with it in xp pts. Now that everyone has an empy, they are nothing special. At least mythic holders can feel good, till the up alex drop rates at least.

PS, bravura can do as much dmg as ukko, you just need to use your 2h. So if that's all you got in abyssea, then pop those 2h chests and go at it.

[Creelo]

Yes, relic WSs need to be reworked.

And Gjallarhorn should get its own song (Ex: Massacre Elegy) <.<

:X

[Cljader1]

Yes, relic WSs need to be reworked.

And Gjallarhorn should get its own song (Ex: Massacre Elegy) <.<

:X

I agree with this, there should be a special relic song added too this horn. Adleast SE said there looking into further enhancement to make to the weapon

[Kitkat]

~Rolls eyes~ You must not know how to do math very well if you think raising ftp to 4.0 makes it stronger than emp. Getting on at around 4pm my time and usually getting off around 10 or 11pm, his weapons are done in roughly 4 days up to 85 easily. Gun he started on Wednesday, it's 85 as of Friday night. I already humored you and answered every question you asked in prior post. You've yet to humor me without being sarcastic, or you compare the weapons on other weaponskills and ignore points brought up. So like everyone else is doing at this point, I'm ignoring you, just like you ignore any argument of substance.

[Crysten]

Relics need to be looked at from a broad perspective; not just the WS. Remember these weapons have hidden effects, additional effects and in the case of 2H weapons, a 20% 2-3x damage proc without the need for a constant Aftermath.

If you're asking for Relics to be the best from every regard, you're being dumb. If you're asking for Empyreans to be the best from every regard, you're also being dumb. The only weapons that even deserve the "time > difficulty" argument for them are Mythics. Period.

Relics, as a whole, have become much more viable and powerful since the 95 update, and really, who knows how Relics, Empyreans and Mythics are going to compare until the update hits.

As it currently stands, there are some weapons that are gonna be absolutely freaking broken should you increase the base WS damage to that of Empyreans. Amano, Apoc, Excalibur, Bravura and Annihilator immediately spring to mind for this. Amano was already very much on par with Masamune on lower defense mobs, Apoc is already DRK's best scythe as it is, Excalibur has it's HP > damage ratio, Bravura allows a full PDT build in full Haste and Annihilator has the utility of having it's enmity supression.

There are of course relics that could use adjustments to make up for crappy aftermaths (hi Gungnir) and mage Relics just need a bloody slap in the face, but looking at the bigger picture, I feel relics are based more on utility and Empys are based on pure damage.

Also, if you're comparing 99 Relics, you need to compare the 99 Empyrean equivilent. Until next update, we still don't know if there'll be any adjustment to the way an Empy becomes fully upgraded. You never know, Empys could have little to no improvement from 90-99, whereas relics could have an amazing hidden effect we have no idea about in addition to the Afterglow, whatever that is.

[Unleashhell]

As it currently stands, there are some weapons that are gonna be absolutely freaking broken should you increase the base WS damage to that of Empyreans. Amano, Apoc, Excalibur, Bravura and Annihilator immediately spring to mind for this. Amano was already very much on par with Masamune on lower defense mobs, Apoc is already DRK's best scythe as it is, Excalibur has it's HP > damage ratio, Bravura allows a full PDT build in full Haste and Annihilator has the utility of having it's enmity supression.

Lol, Have you even seen Knights of Round? It sucks... No matter how much HP you have. Not to mention your almost never at max HP to benefit from the most % you can get out of any WS with that sword.

[Crysten]

Lol, Have you even seen Knights of Round? It sucks... No matter how much HP you have. Not to mention your almost never at max HP to benefit from the most % you can get out of any WS with that sword.

Do you even know how your sword works? The HP additional effect and the occasional 2.5x damage procs are independent of Knights of Round.

Excalibur is already a beastly DPS sword on any higher level mob because of this alone. If you're not at high enough HP for your Excalibur to matter, get better WHMs.

[Kitkat]

As prior stated, relic 12~20% hidden procs only activate on the first attack of every round while other weapons have the ability to have their 2-4x damage procs activate on any/all hits that come from that weapon, be it 1 hit per round or 3 hits per round. This alone would go a long way in helping relics by removing the pseudo "12~20%" and making it a true 12-20%.

When you compare the ws, to give just a base fTP increase, or even the ability to scale with varied tp amounts, they still will not touch Emp in overall total damage. Emp has scaling tp and aftermath durations long enough to hold over ws to ws while activating on all hits of the weapon;scaling from 30 to 50% activation depending on level of aftermath.

Even if SE decided to leave them all as one hit wonders, a scaling 3.25ftp to 3.75 (a few with 4.0ftp) would be adequate enough. This is all assuming that they end up being the same exact TP modifier, which is not the case. Some of these could be turned in to simple "ignores defense" rather than "Damage varies by TP" or even be "Chance to crit varies by TP" which could result in different fTP multipliers of them to compensate for the chance to deal critical damage just like other weaponskills with the chance to crit tend to have lower than 3.0ftp.

The flat ftp increase is only assuming that SE has no intention at all to add TP modifiers, meaning the weaponskills would stay as they are but would have a new across the board ftp multipliers which would then place it near to Emp WS totals, but not surpassing them. The ideal behind this is that most other pure DD ws have the ability to start at 3.25 ftp and scale as high as 5.25 ftp while still being a 1hit ws, others are 1.75-2.25 fTP with chance to crit and are multi-hit WS (from 3-4hit) with only one being a 4.0ftp and still being crit hit.