Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[Unleashhell]

You're missing the context. It's a legitimate tangent sparked by other players asserting that Relics should be stronger than Empyreans (not equivalent to) because they were more difficult to make. He is simply denouncing that assertion, as it is false in the context of level 99 weapons.

Relic WS need a boost. Sure. No one's saying they don't. It's simply being pointed out that they don't innately deserve to be the strongest weapons in the game bar none because of their "difficulty", which is fairly hollow in and of itself. They should be strong. They should be situationally viable alternatives to Empyreans at 99. Neither should really blow the other out of the water. Leave that to Mythics.

Nobody is saying they should be the best. They should be on par with Empyreans. Only he was the one to bring up how easy they are to make. Nobody cares how easy they are to make. My original post has to do with Relic WS boost and NOTHING else.

[Greatguardian]

Nobody is saying they should be the best. They should be on par with Empyreans. Only he was the one to bring up how easy they are to make. Nobody cares how easy they are to make. My original post has to do with Relic WS boost and NOTHING else.

They shouldn't, trial wise they should be equal. Strength wise relics should naturally be stronger from 75 onwards, with Emps being like the little brother of 'em with Mythic's being Big Bro.

Relics are more difficult to obtain, therefore they SHOULD be better.

Looks like I mixed up the chicken and the egg, but the context stands. I know your posts are reasonable, OP. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean the rest of the thread is equally reasonable.

[Kitkat]

I beg to differ about 75 relic harder than 90 empy. I'd like to see you solo a 90 empy, vs soloing a 75 relic. I assure you the 75 relic will be done first. 75 bravura solo, 2-3 months easy with a bst/dnc. 90 ukon solo? go try and see how long that takes you and how much curor you spend brewing. Relic only takes that long because you can only do it 2 hours a day. IF you could farm as much as you wanted, it would be no contest.

You're arguing semantics while missing the point. Take your argument elsewhere.

Just saying it's unrealistic to ask for such crazy boosts to a weapon that's easy to make. It's on topic. Stop thinking relic is so hard anymore and deserves to do the highest damage. If you want the best damage, then make the 'easy' empy. I'm sure you don't go around wearing salvage armor that took you many months to make and cost you millions of gil, asking for it to be upgraded. You are likely wearing empy armor. yes, the easy to make 'empy' armor.

Still arguing semantics, especially when upgrades to nyzul and salvage armors are already in the works. There is no "crazy boost" being talked about. These are request to have the properties of the weapons re-coded to act like all the other weapons do in the game. Asking that a WS that has a 60% stat mod and 3.0 ftp and a lazily tacked on 25% boost to WS damage instead of reworking the weapons to function normally isn't a "crazy boost." Hidden proc would still be lower than ODD aftermath, but would at least have a chance to proc on any strike from that weapon. Asking that the additional effect/visible stats to work in offhand is not different than any of the emps, TOM, or rare/ex weapons working in offhand. You've clearly misread the whole topic if you think this is going to make them "strongest in the game" when it is only asking for them to be treated equally to every other weapon available.

You guys want relics to do the highest dps, have the best mods, just cause you think they are harder to make. Who wouldn't want their bravura to outdps an ukon, while having the bravura's tanking properities along with the debufs. Seriously think about what you are asking lol.

I don't know where you are coming from, but all the posts I've read related to this topic has nothing to do with making them the strongest. It is asking from SE to re-code and make them equally able to perform as other Weapons/Weaponskills. The way they are now is so different from every other weapon/weaponskill that it actually hurts the weapon more than it makes it even remotely useful. Most of these proposed changes wouldn't make any of the weapons out perform emp, but it would make them comparable to them while still remaining balanced.

[Cljader1]

I beg to differ about 75 relic harder than 90 empy. I'd like to see you solo a 90 empy, vs soloing a 75 relic. I assure you the 75 relic will be done first. 75 bravura solo, 2-3 months easy with a bst/dnc. 90 ukon solo? go try and see how long that takes you and how much curor you spend brewing. Relic only takes that long because you can only do it 2 hours a day. IF you could farm as much as you wanted, it would be no contest.

Just saying it's unrealistic to ask for such crazy boosts to a weapon that's easy to make. It's on topic. Stop thinking relic is so hard anymore and deserves to do the highest damage. If you want the best damage, then make the 'easy' empy. I'm sure you don't go around wearing salvage armor that took you many months to make and cost you millions of gil, asking for it to be upgraded. You are likely wearing empy armor. yes, the easy to make 'empy' armor.

You guys want relics to do the highest dps, have the best mods, just cause you think they are harder to make. Who wouldn't want their bravura to outdps an ukon, while having the bravura's tanking properities along with the debufs. Seriously think about what you are asking lol.

This guy has to be joking, I barely sneezed and I got 2 emps. I can take my emp RIGHT NOW to lvl 95 if I want to but I'm saving all my gil and gil making power to get my apoc from 95 to 99. I completed a emp in under one week, its too easy too get. BTW didnt the original poster say that he only want to hear from people who hold both a relic and emp? You only have a emp so you have no concept on what it takes to get a relic. So I don't know why you decided to posted in this thread

[newmonkey]

85 empys are a joke to make you know and i know it Macross and the fact reamins 85 ukon still destorys a 95 bravura and this shouldn't be happening.

Each and every update empys get easier and easier to make at 95 now none of the mobs are difficult ive made 10 ukons over the last few months don't even pretend that these are in anyway hard to make, why should empys be doing more dps than relics, most of the relic aftermaths are junk bar a few, the ws do not come close to the empyrean weapon skills in most cases.

Relics still need boosting to be able to keep up dps wise with empys at 99 and lets not forget we have yet to see the 99 trial items but we do know you need double of whatever it is for relics, you're just butthurt you spent a shed load of gil on your 95 when more than likely they are going to increase the heavy plate drop rate.

So i repeat relics seeminly have a harder final trial than your beloved empyrean weapon, so lets all just wait and see what these items are before we continue this which weapons is harder to make sillyness. Mythics are by far the hardest anyways.

Your point about salvage gear in invalid as pretty soon its going to be agumentable or upgraded to +2 whatever.

[macross]

Why shouldn't difficulty be a factor in the power of a weapon?
People are under the false notion that relics are extremely hard to make. I'm just trying to point out that it is not. Relic are actually the easiest to make atm. They might take longer, but that is only due to you only being able to farm dynamis 2 hours a day. If you could farm dynamis 12 hours a day, you could finish a relic in 5 days no problem.

Relic ws do not need to be on par with empys. Empys are for pure dps, nothing else. Relics have additional properties empys do not have. What you are asking for is akin to asking blm to be able to melee and dd like a warrior, cause it was hard for you to lvl your blm back in the day. Each weapon has its strengths. Relics str just isn't its dps. Go make your 85 empys if you feel they are stronger. They are EASY no???

The salvage armor was an example. You don't complain it sucks now and you wasted your time, you went out and got the empy armor, which is way better way easier.

I wouldnt' be butt hurt at all if they made plates drop more. I made it cause I had the spare gil, and that ukon is > bravura dps wise, and that you need 95 to get to 99. If you get your wish and bravura becomes the best, then for sure I will make one as well and not whine about how empy 99 sucks.

[Kitkat]

Why shouldn't difficulty be a factor in the power of a weapon?
People are under the false notion that relics are extremely hard to make. I'm just trying to point out that it is not. Relic are actually the easiest to make atm. They might take longer, but that is only due to you only being able to farm dynamis 2 hours a day. If you could farm dynamis 12 hours a day, you could finish a relic in 5 days no problem.

I still find this statement ironic. Before 95, if a relic user complained about difficulty they were told to make an emp, now the emp users are complaining cause one trail caused them to return to old school mechanics. Now they "deserve" to be the only pure DD weapon. Hey, if you could spend all that gil making a bow, what is the difference in spending it to finish your 95 emp? And honestly, if you don't have any friends to help you make either of these weapons then that is your own fault. Your "Solo this, solo that" argument is about as strong as saying this isn't an MMO.

Not a substantial argumentative point. Semantics are only quantifiers in a weak argument. You want to use the scope of 1 trial that can be just as easily compared to the currency gathering of a relic and call it "Hard" and "deserving" but at the same time turn around and use it against the very thing you are arguing about. Do try to think your points through. The amount of gil you spend is not a vailid argument either as that is dependent on the economy which can change very easily based on supply/demand. Just as you people use the excuse that the very same thing doesn't make mythics hard either, this is not "hard" under that very same principle.

Relic ws do not need to be on par with empys. Empys are for pure dps, nothing else. Relics have additional properties empys do not have. What you are asking for is akin to asking blm to be able to melee and dd like a warrior, cause it was hard for you to lvl your blm back in the day. Each weapon has its strengths. Relics str just isn't its dps. Go make your 85 empys if you feel they are stronger. They are EASY no???

This...I don't even know how you are coming up with this. The initial build of the weapons were to be "the weapon" by making the weapon and the ws so unique that allowing them to act the same way as all other WS was "unbalanced." Now they go back and rewrite all the rules by giving another line of weapons the same modifiers, the ability to be true multi-hit, and scaling TP mods and this is the new form of "balance." If anything asking for these changes on mythics would fit your comparison better.

The salvage armor was an example. You don't complain it sucks now and you wasted your time, you went out and got the empy armor, which is way better way easier.

You obviously don't play blu, rdm, or drk being as some of these pieces are still the best in their respective slots by situational standards. I can't comment on mardukes or usu as I don't play any of the jobs that use the sets.

I wouldnt' be butt hurt at all if they made plates drop more. I made it cause I had the spare gil, and that ukon is > bravura dps wise, and that you need 95 to get to 99. If you get your wish and bravura becomes the best, then for sure I will make one as well and not whine about how empy 99 sucks.

Honestly, what would there to be "butt hurt" over if they made plates drop more? I think you missed the point on this one. With your adamant enthusiasm in attempting to squash that relic needs any changes, I find this hard to believe. Why? You can't even look at why people complain about some of these aspects of the relics. Try looking at the pitfalls sometime and doing some math behind them. Hidden proc rates begin to become worse the more da/ta procs since it can only proc on first attack per round.

[Ragni]

Why shouldn't difficulty be a factor in the power of a weapon?
People are under the false notion that relics are extremely hard to make. I'm just trying to point out that it is not. Relic are actually the easiest to make atm. They might take longer, but that is only due to you only being able to farm dynamis 2 hours a day. If you could farm dynamis 12 hours a day, you could finish a relic in 5 days no problem.

Relic ws do not need to be on par with empys. Empys are for pure dps, nothing else. Relics have additional properties empys do not have. What you are asking for is akin to asking blm to be able to melee and dd like a warrior, cause it was hard for you to lvl your blm back in the day. Each weapon has its strengths. Relics str just isn't its dps. Go make your 85 empys if you feel they are stronger. They are EASY no???

The salvage armor was an example. You don't complain it sucks now and you wasted your time, you went out and got the empy armor, which is way better way easier.

I wouldnt' be butt hurt at all if they made plates drop more. I made it cause I had the spare gil, and that ukon is > bravura dps wise, and that you need 95 to get to 99. If you get your wish and bravura becomes the best, then for sure I will make one as well and not whine about how empy 99 sucks.

You are so wrong, Emps are easier to obtain. lvl 95 cost only 150-160m, just go solo dynamis and you can make 2m gils per day. Getting emp up to lvl 90 takes 2-3 days lvl 95 takes something like 30-40 days of dynamis if you only do dynamis for gils (you can also do cruor pts, salvage). Don't say please that relics are easier to do because its not true.

If you are talking about dsp, Annihilator is good example or even Apoc these two have better dps than their emp counterparts.

[newmonkey]

Macross you keep rattling on about bravura, so tell me why amano doesn't deserve to keep up with massa dps wise ? That 7 store tp aftermath is laughable.

Lots of relics have stupid aftermaths so again your point about dps is invalid, emys are a complete joke to make to 85 i've got 6 btw, and it is 85 were they get good aftermath and the weapon skill you are only acting like this because rather foolishly you forked out 100 mil on your 95 upgrade instead of waiting till this coming update lol.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Amano overtakes Masamune when accuracy is an issue and Sam doesn't overtp alot.

Then hasszanshin update came.

Save TP buffs/being able to open with 300 TP doesn't help amano either.

And nor does the constant TP mod.