DRK and MP and Damage Dealing.

[Saiken253]

I lol'd. I say improve DRK's WS and implement all the great magic ideas for drk that have been posted throughout the forums. 1 thing that I still think would help everyone(and makes sense in my head) is make every WS have a natural chance to crit. Why can't you crit on something that you're putting forth a lot of "skill and focus" and you can when you're just swinging? Just make the crit WSs crit more frequently(and i've thought this way since before abyssea btw.) and just so much more can be done to this game. SE needs to stop with this beta and start the real thing lol~

[Theytak]

sorry, i was simply being lazy about the statement, so instead of damage rating i said damage. But I was still implying about the weapon's damage rating in my post. Otherwise I would have said, "Do/deal the greatest damage".

But back on topic, I still feel that DRK needs revamping in the WS dept. Flash damage is much more highly valued in EG areas, and even in casual scenes. I do realize that DRK has probably the best per swing damage, and swings the fastest of all the heavy DD, but in many cases we can't utilize this; especially in VW or waiting for certain conditions to happen and can't do as much damage as other DDs can in an instant. Something that helps DRK do more flash damage is needed.

And by flash, think of what a SAM or WAR or DRG can do in 10~15sec.

The word you're looking for is "spike"; ie: "Sam and Drk have always specialized in Spike Damage while Mnk and Nin specialize in Damage over Time."

Shamelessly quoting myself for another page and adding an idea I had for that unique enfeebling necessity that I feel is the most important thing for DRK right now:

A new line of debilitating spells to define the job's enfeebling role~

Dark Magic:
DRK 91) Rupture- Lowers enemy's resistance to blunt weapons.
DRK 96) Disclosure- Lowers enemy's resistance to piercing weapons.
DRK 99) Exposure- Lowers enemy's resistance to slashing weapons.


*These spells overwrite eachother.

Make these meritable to improve the effect. For tougher enemies, allow the spell to land regularly (with sufficient dark magic skill) and balance it by making them wear off within a shorter amount of time depending on how tough the monster is. In content like VW, balance the spell by letting it last just long enough for us to quickly set up a volley of SAM WS or something like that before it wears off.


There's you some spells to cast. There's you a reason to invite a DRK to your PT. There's your unique, perfectly martial/magical identifying line of spells to define the job. If the future identity for WAR is the ability to change its weapon type, what more perfect way to define DRK (WAR/BLM) than with this dark arts twist on that concept. This is exactly the kind of thing the job needs to make its MP bar feel like part of the job again.

This idea is absolutely delicious and as a non-drk, I emphatically support it.

[Saiken253]

Well, spike damage is the single hit big Numbers(like what I can do with /thf on drk with torcleaver). Flash is being able to do a lot of damage with multiple abilities/spells within a very short timeframe. they're similar, but not the same. I also forgot to include BLU.

However, I do enjoy the lowering the resistances of certain damage types that mobs typically have. Especially with only 2 monster families being subject to slashing damage... and both are undead x.x

this and dark nukes that are no longer than 1sec plz if they don't fix the new WSs(in a positive way for DPS~!)

[Theytak]

Well, spike damage is the single hit big Numbers(like what I can do with /thf on drk with torcleaver). Flash is being able to do a lot of damage with multiple abilities/spells within a very short timeframe. they're similar, but not the same. I also forgot to include BLU.

However, I do enjoy the lowering the resistances of certain damage types that mobs typically have. Especially with only 2 monster families being subject to slashing damage... and both are undead x.x

this and dark nukes that are no longer than 1sec plz if they don't fix the new WSs(in a positive way for DPS~!)

that's a bit of a misconception. Spike damage is any form of sudden increase in damage for a short burst. The nomenclature isn't 100% accurate these days, but it was a lot more relevant when it came into common use back in the day. Compare (75 cap, pre abyssea):

Mnk: deals a steady, consistent, predictable amount of damage over long periods of time, even during WS (Asuran fists back then was basically just 4 attack rounds condensed into a single ws). This type of damage was preferable for exp, and events like dynamis and einherjar, where you have a lot of enemies and (less so with einherjar) a good amount of time with which you need to continuously deal with them.

Drk: deals moderate damage over time if allowed, but specializes in dealing large bursts of damage, or "spikes". This type of damage was preferable for shorter fights, or tougher monsters, examples include Sky gods (baring kirin before zergs) and HNMs, where keeping the monster alive longer was a bad idea.

it's basically something like this:

DoT:
||-------------------------------------------------------
Spike:
||___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___

Spike could be either a single SAWS or more like SELRBWKclub zerg, either way it's a large amount of damage output that cannot be maintained over a long period of time. You're confusing "spike damage" with a typical side effect of "Big Number Syndrome"; thinking damage in a single hit is what's important. Pretty much every DD 2hour allows for a significant output of Spike Damage relative to their job, except manafont, since that doesn't increase damage output, just allows damage w/o mp cost, and EES, because it's EES. And Overdrive but that's a different issue.

[Saiken253]

Well I suppose it's just mine and my LSs categorization of all the playstyles of DDing heh. regardless, DRK has no longer become a Spike damage DD(in your terms) and has become more of a DOT DD. DRKs realy can't do a lot of damage in a short timeframe, not like they used to in comparison to other jobs. Simply because if we want to do a big number we need to /thf(which is still good in it's own right) where as a war can still /sam and get meditate as well as sekkanoki; not to mention it's own damage boosting abilities.

Instead, for a DRK to to respectable damage, it has to rely on it's TP swings for it's damage(similar to a mnk) because our WSs have become more and more outclassed by the other 2handed DD that it's pitiful at this point.

Yes I have Caladbolg and yes I can do nice numbers with that weapon, but WAR SAM DRG and such do it much better than DRK. I just want this gap to be closed.

And many of the DDs 2hours need revising/overhaul(like what drg got). Because only WAR SAM MNK DRG(though it's 2hr is becoming less and less significant) BLU and maybe SCH get significant boosts with their 2hours. DRK's Bloodweapon has become a novelty these days with the laughable 30seconds of use and the Souleater resistance that anything worth Kclub zerging(or anything similar to Kclub zerging) unusable; except for bahamut, but who kills him anymore? Additively, don't get me started on Astral Flow haha...

So in short, DRK needs quite a bit of "face-lifting" haha.

[Killvearn]

I just wanted to warp in here and let you know that we are thinking about lowering the casting time for dark magic. On top of that, we are also looking into DRK's magic usage.

Great ideas so far! Keep the feedback coming. ^_^

About magic usage i have an idea for absorb spells.
How about an ability that store the buffs you have absorbed, and give you back after using another ability.
Something like this:

-Start of the fight
-Store ability
-Absorb Str - Vit - Attri - whatever
-Not getting the buffs
-Melee, proc, whatever
-Use second ability
-Getting str+ vit+ etc

This way if you choose the right moment for casting (like when you can't melee for whatever reason: tank building hate, proc, raising TH etc) your dot will not suffer because of casting time, and you can get your boost at the right time, like when Last Resort, Soul Eater, aftermath or other buffs are up. Also should help if you are /sam using Hasso.
Buffs stored will be lose if die or zoning, you can't stack up the same buff (str + more str), duration of effect unchanged (so enhance with equip can still make sense) but all timers start at the same time when using the second ability.

It's just optimize the timing of what can be already done, so i think it will not be too overpowered, if that the case enmity+ bonus after the second ability can be added as a penalty, or something on that line. Or have a max number of buffs that can be stored (based on skill if you will).
Not sure if drain/aspir should be stored as well, but i think the possibility is worth mentioning.
As always thanks for you attention, and sorry for the bad english.

[Boldheart]

Totally on board with this. It seems ridiculous that we don't have any practical nuking potential whatsoever on DRK.

Drain/Drain II would be good if the formulas and recast times weren't so outdated.

Drain actually has a fast recast though II doesnt. The spells itself are great w/ af3 +2 pants and that ability we get can take 700+ hp w/ drain II so the formula is great!

About the T3 spells.... well they are T3 spells so the damage output will not be as of BLM, SCH etc... now more tp towards ws on usage of magic would be great. Like in VW when we are trying to build tp w/ out meleeing would be the shiznat

[Thanotos]

Wow. Amazing idea!!! Does anyone remember that SE "vision of a drk" statement they made..... something about "crippling damage"...... what ever happened to that vision.............

[Selzak]

Drain actually has a fast recast though II doesnt. The spells itself are great w/ af3 +2 pants and that ability we get can take 700+ hp w/ drain II so the formula is great!

About the T3 spells.... well they are T3 spells so the damage output will not be as of BLM, SCH etc... now more tp towards ws on usage of magic would be great. Like in VW when we are trying to build tp w/ out meleeing would be the shiznat

Every five minutes when you use Nether Void Drain II does 700 damage, therefore Drain spells are awesome!

This is pretty much what's wrong with DRK.


Also, 60 seconds is not a fast recast... It's faster than the ridiculous 2 minutes or whatever Drain II has, but it's not fast at all.

[saevel]

Really need to lower the casting time of all dark's spells to 0.5s like stun. Also please look into extending the duration of the +status to 3min like other buffs. This would have DRK's use their dark magic to buff themselves by draining their enemy, which is kinda DRK's thing.

I always thought the long a$$ casting time on dark spells was stupid.