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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selzak View Post
    Everything else is just you being defensive and missing the point that he was trying to make.
    why do people either not read everything, or completely segment each sentence to not be connected in any form in discussions? xD

    But yes, he clearly missed my point and to clarify: Scythe Damage ratings > all and why does that =/= greatest WS damage? clear hating on SEs part, or they really don't know how anything works in this game(outside war mnk sam whm blm), or as someone has said on another thread, "I believe they truly do like bad ideas".
    (2)

  2. #62
    Player Economizer's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
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    1,397
    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Saiken253 View Post
    But yes, he clearly missed my point and to clarify:
    To clarify, even arguing that Scythe is the lowest damage weapon when compared to other 2handers is wrong too, he was using the Empyrean stats, which are favorable to his argument. Bust out the Relics, which are higher damage, and his argument falls flat on its face.

    I'm not even going to argue that you were right (or wrong) here, I don't really care for the sake of this discussion whether Dark Knight is a crappy DD or not, or whether Scythe is a bad weapon choice or not - even if it is the numbers he used were wrong. He might be able to argue whatever else about Scythes and might even be right, but when it comes to down to it, the highest damage rating two handed weapon in the game is a scythe, and the highest flat DPS two handed weapon in the game is a Scythe.
    (0)

  3. #63
    Player Rohelius's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Bastok
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    129
    Character
    Vassago
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Theytak View Post
    tl;dr: Scythe is not, and has never been, the strongest weapon.
    Never is a strong word, 93.3% Haste cap says Hi

    Oh and this...


    Selective memory~
    (4)
    Last edited by Rohelius; 12-10-2011 at 03:10 PM.

  4. #64
    Player Theytak's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selzak View Post
    Everything else is just you being defensive and missing the point that he was trying to make.
    Care to elaborate on how my explanation that scythe isn't the strongest weapon misses the point when in reply to some one saying scythe is the strongest weapon?

    I'm not saying anything negative about drk, or even that I disagree about scythe needing stronger ws (I agree with that), I'm just explaining how BNS isn't ever correct ever.
    (0)
    Siren Server since 2004
    AKA Lady Jinte of Allakhazam
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankWustler View Post
    Nutcracker had trained for years to crush the crotch and/or obliterate the ovaries of each and every monster in Vana'diel. Not even some weird thing that fish have called a "cloaca" could stem his robotic rage towards reproductive bits.

  5. #65
    Player Theytak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiken253 View Post
    why do people either not read everything, or completely segment each sentence to not be connected in any form in discussions? xD

    But yes, he clearly missed my point and to clarify: Scythe Damage ratings > all and why does that =/= greatest WS damage? clear hating on SEs part, or they really don't know how anything works in this game(outside war mnk sam whm blm), or as someone has said on another thread, "I believe they truly do like bad ideas".
    I didn't miss the point, I was correct in my assessment. That you mispoke isn't my fault ; ;

    Quote Originally Posted by Economizer View Post
    To clarify, even arguing that Scythe is the lowest damage weapon when compared to other 2handers is wrong too, he was using the Empyrean stats, which are favorable to his argument. Bust out the Relics, which are higher damage, and his argument falls flat on its face.

    I'm not even going to argue that you were right (or wrong) here, I don't really care for the sake of this discussion whether Dark Knight is a crappy DD or not, or whether Scythe is a bad weapon choice or not - even if it is the numbers he used were wrong. He might be able to argue whatever else about Scythes and might even be right, but when it comes to down to it, the highest damage rating two handed weapon in the game is a scythe, and the highest flat DPS two handed weapon in the game is a Scythe.
    What is this I don't even

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiken253 View Post
    Haha at that joke, unless you were serious then get off the game ^^

    Scythes have the highest damage out of all the weapons(if you really didn't realize what he meant). just compare any lvl of Ukon with any similar lvl of Redemption, or a better example, Apocalypse. he scythe will have much higher damage than the GA. Why can't scythe do more damage than any other weapon in the game(outside of Apoc where it's normal TPing swings can crit for 4k+ on high tier NMs) is rediculous~. And the reasoning: SE despises DRK and it's community and favors the simple melee jobs(WAR SAM MNK) that can "face-roll" and do massive damage.
    He said to compare the empy weapons, so I compared the empy weapons. I didn't use Relics because I was just doing a quick number crunch.

    I'm not trying to insult or berate anyone, I'm not calling anyone stupid, inept, ignorant, or otherwise. I just posted some math that disproves the assertion that "Scythes have the strongest damage out of all weapons" where in damage is read as "damage output" not "damage rating" because no one ever says "damage" and means "damage rating" except when the conversation is about weapon stats. Who pissed in all of your cheerios?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rohelius View Post
    Never is a strong word, 93.3% Haste cap says Hi

    Oh and this...


    Selective memory~
    Touche, sir. I'd totally forgotten about that.



    also: I'm a girl, dammit.
    (0)
    Siren Server since 2004
    AKA Lady Jinte of Allakhazam
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankWustler View Post
    Nutcracker had trained for years to crush the crotch and/or obliterate the ovaries of each and every monster in Vana'diel. Not even some weird thing that fish have called a "cloaca" could stem his robotic rage towards reproductive bits.

  6. #66
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    Sep 2011
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    sorry, i was simply being lazy about the statement, so instead of damage rating i said damage. But I was still implying about the weapon's damage rating in my post. Otherwise I would have said, "Do/deal the greatest damage".

    But back on topic, I still feel that DRK needs revamping in the WS dept. Flash damage is much more highly valued in EG areas, and even in casual scenes. I do realize that DRK has probably the best per swing damage, and swings the fastest of all the heavy DD, but in many cases we can't utilize this; especially in VW or waiting for certain conditions to happen and can't do as much damage as other DDs can in an instant. Something that helps DRK do more flash damage is needed.

    And by flash, think of what a SAM or WAR or DRG can do in 10~15sec.
    (0)

  7. #67
    Player Urteil's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
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    909
    Character
    Urteil
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Selzak View Post
    With all due respect, I think you're being short-sighted here. First of all, a potential Quick Magic effect on Drains, Aspirs, Dread Spikes, and Absorb-TP is already very useful. I feel like a lot of DRK's problems with casting (on the dark magic side) come from recasts. For example, the Drain line of spells seems to have been specifically balanced by having ridiculous recasts. They're good spells, but they're hardly available. To be able to cast Drains back-to-back (occasionally) would help the fact that the spell has grown to have very little impact (especially every 60 seconds).

    Also keep in mind that this is suggested separately from any boost to our overall casting ability. Magic Attack is not going to effect anything except for elemental spells, and no one is saying that those can't be made useful as well. I think it's a lot more worthwhile to focus on our dark magic though, which Quick Magic would help out-of-the-box. The trait is begging to be on DRK and PLD.
    Reduce the recast/casting time by a static amount. Not a random proc which will be to be percieved as much stronger than what it really is a /random effect that hardly benefits us. Then I will have to rely entirely on luck instead of skill, with little to no tactical input whatsoever.



    This ability cannot:

    Be planned on.
    Does not fit into any type of planned and methodical strategy.
    Will be up-played and will do more damage to the job then the negligible benefit it brings.


    If you want to help the spell casting of DRK's in respect to Drain/Aspir/Endark/DreadSpikes please:

    Lower casting time by a set amount.
    Lower recast by a set amount.


    This idea of a "random" chance for it to be good will only give job more adjustments that look good on paper but in application are lackluster.


    What's begging to be on DRK and PLD, which are front-line jobs, is faster magical casting in all situations, not a random occurrence for something to that is terrible to be luckily changed into something good.

    Example:
    SE lower Drain/Aspir spells casting time to 1 second, and shave 20 seconds off of the recast timers.
    (2)
    Last edited by Urteil; 12-10-2011 at 08:04 PM.

  8. #68
    Player Gokku's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    lol @ girls on the internets
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by isladar View Post
    As far as I'm aware BG has always held the position of "We're not the *** Morality Police". People are welcome to express their opinions about third party programs on this site. However, we will, as stated, ban the *** *** out of someone trying to post links to said programs. And if people want to cry about Stan's guild program then they should probably start boycotting ffxiah. And excel.

  9. #69
    Player Selzak's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theytak View Post
    ...because no one ever says "damage" and means "damage rating" except when the conversation is about weapon stats.
    That's exactly what this conversation was about lol. I don't think anyone is mad (they shouldn't be). You just didn't understand the context of the thread/his post and made a huge, irrelevant post that came across as you defending MNK when the discussion was simply about the fact that big, high-powered weapons should do more WS damage than smaller, less powerful weapons. Strong can be ambiguous I guess. Think of it like a skinny guy hitting someone 100 times and doing more damage versus a professional boxer hitting someone once and doing less damage (overall). Still, we're calling the professional boxer stronger in this context. It's not that hard to understand I don't think...

    Either way, this is getting very off-topic and it's really not worth discussing here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Urteil View Post
    Reduce the recast/casting time by a static amount.
    Both are worth considering and honestly I'd be happy either way. The reason I'm more on board with Quick Magic is because it resets recasts completely, and a lot of our spells have not aged well so casting an instant one followed immediately by another one causes them to have a real impact (i.e. with Drain). I don't know if you're thinking more in terms of PvP or something here, in which case a static thing would be a lot better and the above problem doesn't even apply. I'd also argue that the notion of "tactical input" or "skill" in either of these cases is pretty silly. It's not like we have to solve a puzzle to make the spell available or something either way. The only difference is that one is random, which I'd argue requires more skill (adapting) to deal with. This game isn't hard.

    Like I said though, I'm on board with either one and I'd assume that a simple alteration of the casting times and recast times is what's actually going to happen.
    (0)
    Last edited by Selzak; 12-11-2011 at 12:21 AM.

  10. #70
    Player Solrath's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    2
    Character
    Solrath
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 95
    I think that DRK's elemental magic (Tier I-III) could be eliminated and replaced with a set of elemental spells similar to some found in other square-enix games, notably the "Dark -ga" spells like Dark Firaga, Dark Blizzaga, etc. In fact, you can look no further than a certain mission boss in FFXI that uses Dark Flare, Dark Freeze, Dark Tornado, etc. These spells are either conal or radial, are cast instantly (however, they are "TP moves," not spells,) and inflict debilitating status effects.

    I think DRK should get a set of "Dark -ga" spells that cost a relatively low amount of MP (100-200), have very short casting times (1-2 seconds) and inflict 1-2 status effects related to its element (i.e. Amnesia with Dark Firaga.) It goes without saying that these spells should also be Area of Effect. To boost their damage, these spells could either a.) be affected by Souleater: Take 10% of the user's Max HP and add that total (or double) to the damage of the spell, or b.) do high damage and always require 10% of the user's Max HP as part of the casting cost.

    I would only hope that these spells have unique animations.
    (2)

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