How to fix pld as tank??

[zaksame]

Provoke has been broken since level 75,too much dmg being dealt to coincide with the small numbers Voke give.

IMO a great idea would be to utilize the Shield Bash that has ALWAYS been far too long a timer.
My idea would be to give the PLD the option to forfeit 100 tp for an added SB,200 tp and gives added SB that stuns for 5 secs and 15% bonus to attack[60 secs] 300 tp gives 7 second stun plus 25% bonus to attack/15% bonus to defense [60 secs]

Aside from that Provoke values need to be updated to coincide with the higher levels and higher damage.

[saevel]

Honestly they should get their own enmity transfer abilities like THF does.

Anyhow, it's extremely dishonestly to talk about hate cap without also talking about the DIFFERENT hate caps. There are two hate metrics that are added together to determine who has enmity. CE is the hate you get from damage and caps at 10000, it's ridiculously easy to cap and only goes down when you take damage. VE is the hate generated by abilities like provoke and some spells. VE has the same cap as CE but goes down at a rate of 60 units per second. Since every can cap CE easily, VE should be where tanking is focused on. PLD should get a job trait that lowers VE decay rate along with a set of abilities that give periodic VE generation in excess of the decay rate.

[Greatguardian]

CE is ridiculously easy to cap compared to VE? On Paladin?

lol.

Practically any WS or JA will cap VE after one or two uses, and it's extraordinarily easy to maintain VE via melee swings.

On the flipside, Paladin has no half-decent CE generating abilities. That is, unless you consider Flash's average 240 and maximum 360 CE per 23 seconds "good".

CE is primarily generated through damage. Damage is not something PLD excels at. Thus, CE is not something PLD excels at. It can cap it, sure, who the hell can't cap Enmity? But it's certainly not a class exclusive thing - it's harder to deal with CE on Paladin than any other melee job.

Also, Provoke is net negative Enmity. Stop asking for it.

[Alderin]

PLD is fine. Build an Ochain.

For all the people about to Q.Q "awwz but i shouldn't have to build an empyrean for my job to be useless."

Wake up, unless you're a mage job - end game content as it is pretty much requires some form of end game weapon.

You get invited to VW as a Widowmaker WAR? Hell no you won't, they will pick the Ukon WAR standing next to you.

[Arcon]

You get invited to VW as a Widowmaker WAR? Hell no you won't, they will pick the Ukon WAR standing next to you.

Not sure who you party with, but no. And building an Ochain is still a bitch. Either way, no.

[Alderin]

Not sure who you party with, but no. And building an Ochain is still a bitch. Either way, no.

Hmmm... That was my point exactly?

i didnt realize ochains kept mobs off vere mnks or ukko wars

They deflect them like a mirror yo... Didn't say that though - Enmity issues are a complete different kettle of fish.

I will admit, I am guilty of originally reading the title and assumed this was going to be one of those "fix PLD so I can tank without building an empyrean or relic" threads that we got riddled with. So I do semi-retract my original post after reading this thread a little more.


PLD enmity is an issue and always will be with the current hate system. I believe the only real solution would be to completely remove non-decaying enmity and give all enmity some way to decay over time (say if a Ukon war hits the hate cap, their previous "non decay enmity" would start to decay. Basically meaning that if a DD really wants to lose hate, best way would be to disengage and wait while their enmity starts to deplete. If enmity was totally shared amoung the alliance on a percentage basis, without a non-decay variable then it would allow a PLD to hold hate better.

Lets assume we have 4 jobs already on a hate list - with equal share of 25% PLD / WAR / WHM / BLM.. As the PLD keeps building hate, the enmity towards the other 3 would decrease (PLD gets to say 30%, so the WAR, WHM, BLM slowly deplete at an even rate. If say the WAR decided to start zerging, the other 3 job's enmity would start to decay. The advantage of a PLD at this rate would be the ability to effectively "steal" the Warrior's hate by decaying it once the WAR disengages or slows it's damage.

I am not entirely sure if this is kind of what is already in place, but the fact that there is an actual "hate cap" that no one player can have more non-decay enmity then another is beyond me... I say remove non-decay enmity and base it purely on decaying enmity. I am no programmer - nor do I know how enmity is really "modelled" but removing non-decay enmity makes more sense to me.

Anyway that is how to "improve" PLD's ability to hold hate in my eyes.

[Brolic]

PLD is fine. Build an Ochain.

For all the people about to Q.Q "awwz but i shouldn't have to build an empyrean for my job to be useless."

Wake up, unless you're a mage job - end game content as it is pretty much requires some form of end game weapon.

You get invited to VW as a Widowmaker WAR? Hell no you won't, they will pick the Ukon WAR standing next to you.

i didnt realize ochains kept mobs off vere mnks or ukko wars

[Arcon]

i didnt realize ochains kept mobs off vere mnks or ukko wars

Not completely, but it's a good start. Shield Mastery allows PLD to gain TP rapidly with Ochain, and Chant du Cygne or Requiescat will be able to put out good ish numbers. That way, PLD will be able to gain both VE and CE fast enough, and not only that, but by taking very little damage they'll also lose little enmity.

Ya, i agree with the idea of raising hate cap for PLD exclusively... While DDs are able to reach 100% hate cap, PLD should be able to boost up to 110%, its not a huge margain but if would help with hate control and still allow DDs to pull hate.

Wrong, DDs wouldn't be able to pull hate, unless PLD takes massive damage to take out a good portion of its CE. Apart from that PLD would keep hate indefinitely. Raising hate cap is no solution.

[Kriegsgott]

PLD: i'm hungry !
"Insert PLD Ability Name Here" - Consumes the Enmity of Party Members at the cost of TP/MP/HP whatever
PLD: tasty!

(recast 3-5-10min?)

[KoKoMonsta]

Ya, i agree with the idea of raising hate cap for PLD exclusively... While DDs are able to reach 100% hate cap, PLD should be able to boost up to 110%, its not a huge margain but if would help with hate control and still allow DDs to pull hate. Big problem is, as PLD takes dmg, hate is slowly decreasing; so if cap was increased to 110%, taking dmg would be more suddly and allow pld more time to get hate w/o dropping below 100% while dds are maxed out at 100%. SE can implement that throw merits, like a Job trait you can merit. It could be a meritable job trait similar to overwhelm, where once u merit it it remains active all times.

Ex: Merit catagory 3 - "Escutcheon" Potential emnity cap is raised by 2% with each merit implanted.

So if you can use 5/5 merits, it can increase to 110%.

PLD isnt broken, but more like most DD's dont take in consideration of hate control. Seems like DDs forgot uses of /thf and mages starting nukes with lower tier rather than spammin T5 spells from start of a fight. Hate control doesnt always come from the pld.. but the ppl around him, thats why emn is so seperate from hate. Not truely factual but just my opinion lol